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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Blue flame - can anyone explain

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jd70 puller

12-29-2006 07:25:20

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A few years back we put together a JD 70. Just a powerBlock and some sort of fancy camshaft. Tractor had very little lugging ability but would turn lots of RPMs and have good power until it dropped in RPM. OK, that was because of the cam. My question is, at idle, it had a blue wafty flame coming out of the exhaust pipe. And at full throttle under load, the flame looked more like a propane torch. Can anyone help explain this? I've never seen this before and can't duplicate (or know if this was something bad or good).

Thanks in advance

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JLG

12-29-2006 14:31:40

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to jd70 puller, 12-29-2006 07:25:20

I had a "G" that would do that. I think I decided I had the carburetor set too rich. It was when I first started pulling and I backed the load needle out a turn or two. About the time I was unhooking from the sled it would sound like it was gurgling out of the exhaust pipe and would send out a nice flame. Never had it do it while I was pulling though.

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Crutch

12-29-2006 11:12:28

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to jd70 puller, 12-29-2006 07:25:20

No low end and plenty high in sounds like to much duration on the cam lobes (overlap). Try backing off the exhaust valve adjustment and see if it helps. You might also back the intake off some also to see if power improves.

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jd70 puller

12-29-2006 13:57:49

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to Crutch, 12-29-2006 11:12:28

Crutch, the tractor is long gone, I just got to wondering about the fire. If I remember, the cam was really tall. Just seeing if anyone can explain the fire and if it's a good thing or a bad thing. Looks cool, but I've got this feeling, it's probably an indication of something gone wrong.

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wolfman

12-29-2006 16:00:30

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to jd70 puller, 12-29-2006 13:57:49

Our old WD Allis with a magneto had a nice blue flame out the exhaust like a gas cook stove. Some say it is due to the magneto having a hotter spark. The WD-45 had a red-orange flame under heavy load(distributor). Both ran fine for years.

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G Fever

12-29-2006 08:12:13

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to jd70 puller, 12-29-2006 07:25:20

jd70 puller, My buddies JD GW does that. My G will do that too sometimes. He claims that just shows you have something under the hood. I dont know what cause it.

G Fever

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Ol Gray A

12-29-2006 08:10:48

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to jd70 puller, 12-29-2006 07:25:20

Either a leak in your exhaust manifold allowing it to pull in fresh air to mix with the exhaust gases or your timing is to high.

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B-maniac

12-29-2006 18:52:08

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to Ol Gray A, 12-29-2006 08:10:48

The burning is supposed to take place in the combustion chamber and cylinder. That's the only place to get power out of burning fuel. If you are seeing flames (especially blue) you are burning a lot of fuel outside the cylinder, which does NOT give you any power. Too much cam isn't allowing complete cylinder filling and is cutting your power stroke short by opening the exhaust valve too soon. Because you lose so much mixture and pressure this way, many will richen up the mixture in an attempt to get back the power they are losing by over camming and just burn more out the exhaust. Some people just think they can apply small block Chevy principles to a 2 cyl. JD and get the same rewards. It only does one thing good. It keeps the economy going good. Volumetric efficiency is what it is all about and each engine,s design will dictate what rpm it is the most efficient at. You can't just decide to add 1000 rpm to an engine and get a lot more USABLE power. Everything's a trade off. At stock rpm,it will have less power. If you can keep it running at 3000 rpm you may have lots of power. Just hope your tires never hook up and bog it back to normal cause it will fall on it's face.

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willywonka

12-31-2006 00:52:27

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to B-maniac, 12-29-2006 18:52:08

You are correct about the valves opening up to early. However this can be corrected be retarding the camshaft by degreeing it with a degree wheel

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ChadS

12-30-2006 08:51:19

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Re: Blue flame - can anyone explain in reply to B-maniac, 12-29-2006 18:52:08

Overlap is when they open the intake valve while the exhaust valve is still open, yet on its way closed, letting a part of the intake charge escape with the exhaust. The flame lights up when the exhaust opens burning the gas out. Overlaped cams dont belong in low rpm engines with stock, or even slightly higher compression tractor engines. Its cyl pressure is the main reason why they do cams with overlap,,,, its so they can say they have 13 to 1 compression ratio,,, and run it on 93 pump gas. 93 pump gas is good for up to 180 psi in some engines,,,, 13 to 1 cyl pressure is way higher than 180,,,, See how that works??? Now take the stocker engine with low compression, stuff that same overlaped cam in it, and you drop HP and torque from even lower compression than what it had stock. Its a vacuum leak. Just like you said,,, might run at high rpms,,, not low though,,,, A tractor cam grind to me,, and this is my opinion,,,, so dont shoot me,,, LOL,,, A cam in these low compression engines should be made so it pumps up cyl pressure. If they want to play with some sort of overlap, take it to the point of its highest mechanical cyl pressure and stop right there. Save the fancy grinds for the big huge high compression strokers that can stand to lose some cyl pressure. Chad

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