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Speed limit-pace tractor

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burns

04-26-2001 19:18:17




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It seems that when a group of folks discuss ways to even the playing field at pulls, the topic of speed limit is brought up. I personally only pull at a couple places that use a pace tractor. I personally do not feel that I was treated unfairly. HOWEVER, I did witness the pace tractor operator running a little slower for a couple tractors. Now I realize that the pace tractor should slow down if the pulling tractor slows down, so the pulling tractor can't build up a cushion to really open it up.

My question is how do you folks patrol the pace tractor. Do you have a limit switch mounted on the pace tractor which will activate a light when the foot pedal is fulling depressed? I do recognize that some sleds are designed to monitor speed but how do you monitor the variety of speeds. The 3 mph speed is generated by a Kubota tractor at this particular pull. (not sure on model)

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KB

05-06-2001 07:50:43




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
We had tried a pace tractor during a one pull one year. We extended a 30 foot rope behind the pace tractor. When the hook started, both the pace tractor and pulling tractor started nose to nose. The pulling could not pass the pace tractor and could throttle as he needed to until the pulling tractor lagged beyond the 30 foot rope. At this point it was hands off the throttle, not literally - just could not use. An RPM limit was in place too. The pace tractor always ways consistant in speed. As I said, it was done once. I think it kept everyone at the same pace, but people didn't like the "police pacer" winner or loser. You see it is not always winners who "cheat", it is everyone who tries for an edge and if they don't hook up they loose.

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missery

04-28-2001 02:53:53




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
why should the pace tractor slow down?who cares if you slow down.the tractor is there to ensure you don't go over the speed limit.they should set the tractor at a speed,and don't change it through the entire pull. personally i think it is kind of childish.i don't think i woould like another tractor beside me.



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Winner

04-28-2001 14:48:11




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to missery, 04-28-2001 02:53:53  
The misserians and winners are all in agreement. Who wants to race a pace tractor? Either in a fast race or a slow race.



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burns

04-28-2001 07:57:15




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to missery, 04-28-2001 02:53:53  
Well the idea of maintaining a certain speed is the whole idea. If the pace tractor maintains a constant speed, the pulling tractor will just go slow until the pace tractor ends up half way down the track. Then the pulling tractor can open it up and end up traveling faster then the maximum mph of the pace tractor. I guess some would call this cheating and not being childish.



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Winner

04-27-2001 20:07:27




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
There are two kinds of pullers. Winners and those that can't make it work no matter what you tell them.



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Forgot one

04-27-2001 20:16:05




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to Winner, 04-27-2001 20:07:27  
You forgot your category, BULL$HITERS



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Winner

04-28-2001 08:34:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to Forgot one, 04-27-2001 20:16:05  
I thought this whole board belonged to my class.



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we do No text

04-28-2001 09:54:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to Winner, 04-28-2001 08:34:28  
nt



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troy

04-27-2001 10:53:21




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
The club I pull with has a 5 mph speed limit. The tractor I pull is an E-3 co-op and I normaly pull 2nd gear high range in the 3500# class. This usualy works fine at 4.7-4.8 mph, but when you hit the throttle to hard and surge the skid it causes the horn to blow or if you get a track where you pull slightly down hill. It still seems like the tractors with all the hp and $ still win.



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WTW

04-27-2001 11:56:21




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to troy, 04-27-2001 10:53:21  
If you have the capability to pull the sled at the same speed as the tractors that are beating you it is NOT the dollar per horsepower that is beating you. You have to figure out how to get your tractor to hook up to the track, whether it be hitch, weight transfer, tires, track reading, driving or all the this stuff combined. That's your reason for not winning not horsepower. If you can maintain the same speed limit, better study your program. Figure it out and you will be in the top with the rest of them. Good Luck!! Dave W.

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troy

04-28-2001 10:33:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to WTW, 04-27-2001 11:56:21  
I have been doing very well in my class, the 14.9x38 armstrongs have really helped. It's not easy for a 50+ hp wc to put the power to the groung using the 14.9x28's.(the largest they can run with our rules.) What I was talking about is once you get big hp and big rubber together its tough to beat unless you spend the $.



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bob

04-29-2001 13:09:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to troy, 04-28-2001 10:33:03  
perhaps what is happening here is like in all sports money means WIN I do not pull but have seen them where sled controls speed and believe it to be only fair rule if you want to run like the super stocks join that class This would be one reason for not putting my tractors in front of a sled



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WTW

04-27-2001 08:31:55




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
I am a member of the Hawkeye Antique Tractor Pulling Association in Eastern Iowa where I pull antique tractors and I am also a member of East Central Iowa Association where I pull a open farm tractor with a turbo. Both these associations use the ground speed limits to control there classes, 3.5 MPH for the antique and 10 MPH for the Open Farm Class. The device that is used on our antique sled I built myself, It monitors the drive line shaft speed to determine actual ground speed. This is one of two different units that I have built, the other is on an antique sled in Southwest Iowa. The device will monitor and sense speed change in increments less than one tenth of a MPH. The system is NOT a radar. Included with the unit is the control box that the sled operator can shut the horn off for open classes where speed limit signal is not wanted, I have green and red signal lights on the sled to let the flagman and crowd know that the sled is set and the sled operator is ready. The light will stay green as long as the set speed is not passed, when the speed goes above 3.5 mph the green light will change to red and three pneumatic horns will sound. The sled operators control box has indicator lights monitoring the signal lights along with volt and amp gauges monitoring the battery condition and charging system output. A alternator driven off the sled drive line maintains the battery that powers the system. The unit on the Hawkeye sled has gone five years with no problems other than one light bulb. It is all home made from miscellaneous parts such as toggle switches micro switches, gauges, relays, diodes, horns, battery, alternator and a mechanical governor that monitors the drive line speed of the sled. It works well and I think it is better than a radar for even consistency. Taking the speed off the sled drive line which also drives the weight box is accurate as any place to monitor it because you know that the wheels on the sled are not slipping. Been pulling for many years with many organizations and the fairest way to go is regulating ground speed with an automated device, NOT A PACE TRACTOR!! Anywhere there is human involvement the fair game concept is lost. You don't have to worry about who has the most power or what gear he/ she is in because no one single tractor will ever go faster at any moment going down the track than 3.5 mph. The real most important thing to have to be competitive in a paced class (other than knowing how to pull) is that you need a tractor strong enough to pull the sled 3.5 mph and be able to hold it consistently the whole length of the track. Once you have meet that criteria all the extra power that the money dogs want to poor into there tractors actually can hurt them more in a paced class than it will help them. Now if you want to take that extra power and run an open class then that is there game and let them have it. If you think you are big or tough enough to run with them join in. I have found if you offer the open classes with the pace classes the hot tractors will want to pull the open to show there stuff. Some organizations even limit the tractors to pull in one type of class either paced or open. There is allot of ways of putting on pulls and the best way is different classes for different types of pulling and strict rules that ARE inforced. An important fact on this subject to remember is: There is no way to regulate what is so called stock but there is a way to regulate speed. Pace also works well for limiting turbo charged tractors and the trick is the same, have your tractor set up for the game that you are playing. Oh buy the way I don't win them all either. Good Luck!! Dave Wickman

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missery

04-28-2001 03:00:42




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to WTW, 04-27-2001 08:31:55  
dave,is this a system you designed,or is it an DMI system built by Tectronnic Corp? dave.



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WTW

04-30-2001 06:49:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to missery, 04-28-2001 03:00:42  
missery, This system is built and designed from scratch. I drew up the circuitry and built it all from off the shelf parts from Ag and auto parts stores.



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puller

04-27-2001 05:05:15




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
Yep Burnsie the pace tractors are a joke too. They are operated by humans, you know, the same ones that make up flunky dory rules. Radar is the only way to go. Was at a pull 20 years ago and they had a brand new IHC tractor for the pace tractor. The operator was supposed to select a certain gear which set the speed limit when the trottle was wide open. Worked OK until the farorite child puller was hooked. Well, when he started out running the pace tractor the pace tractor operator hooked another gear and took off about 15 MPH. They let the pull stand because of "pace tractor malfunction" I laugh about it now, wasn't funny then.

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Gary

04-27-2001 02:49:41




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
Hey burns,the 3 different sleds I pull with a speed limit all use some type of radar,it will go
off automatically without the "human touch" which
I feel is good.Its not perfect but I feel its a better way to go than anything else if you want to
keep the near stock tractors in the running.RPM,
what gear you're in and whats "under the hood"
don't really matter nearly as much.Makes it much
easier for the pull operator and fairer for everyone.

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burns

04-27-2001 04:07:02




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 Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to Gary, 04-27-2001 02:49:41  
Most of the pulls we do attend are a low gear only pull with out any type of rpm regulation. I pull against a built up Massey that will run 5mph with 38" rubber running @4000rpm. It is low gear so it is legal and extremely difficult to compete against. The owner recognizes what he has so he primarily pulls the open classes (most of the time) So I guess a ground speed control device would be helpful.

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missery

04-28-2001 03:07:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-27-2001 04:07:02  
do you pull in clubs with pto rpm limits?our club has a 700 rpm limit on the pto.works pretty good to keep the high reving tractor in check. dave



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burns

04-28-2001 08:01:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to missery, 04-28-2001 03:07:35  
Is that a no load rpm? I don't know enough pto rpms to determine if that would be an average pto rpm for different makes/models/brands. Does anyone have a chart for pto rpm to compare different models?



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rick

04-28-2001 10:46:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-28-2001 08:01:56  
burns, go to antiquetractorpulling.com and check out the RPM chart



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Cookie

04-26-2001 21:56:14




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 Re: Speed limit-pace tractor in reply to burns, 04-26-2001 19:18:17  
I go to a pull in central N.Y. every year for the past 12 years,and from what I have seen speed limit is not the answer.The guy's who have the most invested in there tractor are still the ones winning,about the only time it backfire's is on the turbo tractors.



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