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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed.

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jcarter

07-30-2007 10:56:28




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Looking to get and set up a tractor, preferably a red one for local,kind of brush rule pulling.It is a mechanical sled, with maybe about 5-7, and 7-9 classes that I'm considering.There are a few M's around for sale and a few W-6's, not many 400's.What is my best choice and what can be done to them for a modest price.What aftermarket stuff is available and from where.How light can an M be made, and how much power can be economically produced and how? Thanks for any advise and help. Jim.

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Craig Lysne

07-30-2007 18:16:32




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-30-2007 10:56:28  
well i pulled a stock M a few times and pulled good in 5500 and 6500. key is to balance it good. gotta consider tires and different track conditions.if you use it JUST for pulling you could put presses stell whells on it and take the belly pump out. i like pulling them because they have a lot of power for their weight.
just my 2 cents



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G deere

07-30-2007 14:07:49




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-30-2007 10:56:28  
If you remove the original fuel tank and replace it with a smaller front - mounted tank, remove hydraulics, extras etc. it would be very easy to make it into 4000 pounds.

Power wise if replacing the cylinders would be too expensive I would put oversized rings in it, replace the spark plugs & wires, grind the valves, I would run straight pipe for exhaust but i'm not sure how much it would help. Depending on the class running increased RPM's would greatly increase horsepower.

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ChadS

07-30-2007 14:44:47




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to G deere, 07-30-2007 14:07:49  
Budget,,, used high dome pistons, if the sleeves are good, clean em up with a bottle brush hone. Best money spent is a cam swap, 450 cam will wake it up quite a bit, add some carb, governor, and ignition upgrades and you can have a pretty stout M. The later model M the better, even though most can be worn out and be 10 years newer than one thats older and in better shape. I like a late model M. Cyl heads are decent in the later years, so look for at least an 8060 head or a 8574 casting. Not much difference, the 8574 is a little thicker, and its a head that was made from bout 48-54. Less prone to be cracked like the old 8060's. Hope this helps a bit, lots of good info on this site to hop one up to pull or work. ChadS

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jcarter

07-30-2007 15:54:54




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-30-2007 14:44:47  
Thanks so far, but to get a little more serious about it,1: What can you increase cubes to?Other than a Super M sleeve,Is there another that can be used, or can the block be "smoothed up" for a piston with no sleeve? 2: what do stroked cranks cost and add to the stroke and c.i.What do you use for rod and bearing combos?Where do you get that kind of stuff?3:The 450 cam has more lift ? What carb do you switch to? I have looked thru the old posts,and found some info,but not to much specific stuff. Jim.

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ChadS

07-30-2007 16:40:40




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-30-2007 15:54:54  
Yeah, the block can run without sleeves, will be 4.125 bore. a 450 piston will drop right in. Most strokers we do uses a stock bearing, stock rods. They hold up very well. Cranks vary in price from place to place, so shop around. Much over a 1 inch stroker will be in the 1000-1250$ range. The 450 cam has more lift and duration on the intake lobe VS the M cam, the ehxaust lobe has a bit more lift, but the duration stayed the same. Carbs depend on CI and rpm ranges, M carb housing will be fine, with the right venturi and proper jet size. 6 cyl carb bowls are good to use. How many HP are you looking for??? what size tires? stock hitch or modified? Chad

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sflem849

07-30-2007 17:39:25




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-30-2007 16:40:40  
ChadS - What are the advantages and disadvantages to using a 400/450?
Thanks,
Scott



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ChadS

07-30-2007 19:01:08




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to sflem849, 07-30-2007 17:39:25  
The whole tractor, or just the engine? (sorry, its been a long day) Chad



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sflem849

07-30-2007 19:06:04




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-30-2007 19:01:08  
The whole thing. I am currently pulling a SMTA, but everyone says pull the sleeves and run 400 pistons. Why wouldnt I just get a 450 and run that. I know there is a different hyd system on them, but that would probably come out anyhow. Also, I am sure the ta would be an advantage in open classes or does this hurt w additional weight that you cant move in the low gear/no shift classes?



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ChadS

07-31-2007 05:59:44




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to sflem849, 07-30-2007 19:06:04  
Some shift the TA some dont. Most times, ive seen the TA spin out the tractor. Too late when shifting is usually to blame. MTA's had the 264, so did the 400, the 450 kit is the overbore to 281 will fit the MTA if you change the wrist pin bushing. As for comparing frame to frame,, Well, Ive seen 400-450's out pull MTA's, and Ive seen MTA's out pull 400-450's. Id say if you did not want to pull the MTA apart and want a 400-450, better get a bigger trailer. Not really had anything to do with HP, just the way they drive em on the tracks. MTA had the classic style, 400-450 more sleek, but darn near identical as far as frames are concerned. Im for the MTA, but thats just me. Chad

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jcarter

07-30-2007 17:15:18




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-30-2007 16:40:40  
If you used 450 pistons, and about 1/2" stroke,450 cam, one of those heads you mentioned, what does that give you for c.i. and set up with good spark and fuel, what kind of ballpark h.p.?If you stayed with stock stroke for awile, how would it compare?Would be setting up with highest, shortest drawbar allowed, or that would work.Would be looking at 14.9 or 15.5 tires.Didn't know that there was much intercangeability on carb parts such as the bowls.This area will only have about 4 pulls next year, so a guy has to not go to overboard building, but the challenge is there. Jim.

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ChadS

07-30-2007 18:59:27




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-30-2007 17:15:18  
5.75 stroke, 4.125 bore, 307ci. But, youd be suprized what a good 281 can do,,,,, The stroker would have more, but the 281 would be right in with it. Ive had good luck out of a 281ci engine, its had mild work done, but, power usually isnt a problem for it in 7000-7500. it just has alot of low end torque. Probably never would stall it in low gear. Chad



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jcarter

07-30-2007 20:12:08




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-30-2007 18:59:27  
Thanks for the help and ideas.Sounds like the way to start would be staying with the stock stroke.Ideally finding a 450 would be the way to go.Have to watch for what comes along for sale. ChadS are you in the business, or just have a lot of knowledge about Farmalls. I went way back in the posts and have came across alot of your advise and help to others. Jim.



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ChadS

07-31-2007 06:18:48




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-30-2007 20:12:08  
Our family opened business for antique pulling parts about 6 years ago. Started out as a puller, when about every weekend got waxed by the competition. Time passes, and we got better and better, tinkering, trials and errors, eventually got a taste of success with a pair of H farmalls. Soon, started working on other pullers machines, did what we did to our H's to M,s etc etc and had the same results, they pulled better! We learned how to work on our own equipment, being farmers, with a small tool box of old wrenches, to a little bigger tool box, (mainly the shed we work out of). Dad used to work for Case IH, then the company went into grain handling equipment, I started working for em too, not as long as Dad had, but still had the privlige to work beside a good teacher. We keep em simple, and to what we think would work the best from past results. Repair and design is what we are up to these days, build a few engines, alot of limited slip differentials, and it keeps us busy, and we still work on grain systems quite a bit. Spent bout all day yesterday in a grain bin trying to get it unloaded, nothin comming out, got it flowin though,,, 10 miles away from here a fellow darn near drowned in a similar bin from a grain bridge collapsing inside the bin and almost buried him alive. He's ok, but, lucky,, I cant say that, Just glad he is ok. But yeah, we work on a pullin tractor or 20 during the season. close to 50 during the winter. Chad

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jcarter

07-31-2007 09:14:55




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to ChadS, 07-31-2007 06:18:48  
Interesting,I can relate to your "biography".What part of the world is home? I am a grain farmer from western Manitoba.Played with antiques 30 years ago, then got into modifyed pulling till I sold it 2 years ago.Two wheel drive truck class with blown alcohol Arais engine at about 2400 H.P. Got to costly and time consuming, we were having to travel 750-1000 miles to pull.These local antique pulls will be kind of fun. We are getting close to harvest, but into latter fall,may email you about some of the things we have in mind.Actually we are probably looking at building 2.My brother is a heavy duty mechanic and plays with old tractors as well. Jim.

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ChadS

07-31-2007 09:46:39




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 Re: Getting into pulling with a Farmall M advise needed. in reply to jcarter, 07-31-2007 09:14:55  
Northern Indiana, bout 100 miles southeast of Chicago,Ill. From what Ive heard, Antique pulling is growing in Canada like wildfire. Id imagine that 2wd truck is a fun ride! Was thinking of building a truck, but, the tractors keep me busy enough these days. Went and got 4 427 tall block chevy engines from a county highway dept auction, just never did anything with em. Sometimes, its nice to slow down with an antique tractor when pulling comes to mind. Have talked with alot of drag racers that have swapped over, and they say, where has this been all this time! Ya know? But the roar of a big V8 is a song that is never forgotten either,,, can ring your ears for days!! We have been running antiques for,,, well, Dad started pulling back in the late 60's, I took up pulling in 1990 with a Farmall Super H, (which I still have and pull) ran stroker H's for years, still do, been getting out of the modified classes lately, been having alot of fun with my JD green Farmall M. Dared to be different, and it gets alot of looks at the pulls, but, they aint seeing things,, its really green!!! HAHAHA!! Really on engines and types of engines in pulling is if it will do what you intend on, thoudands of opinions on what the magic HP number is to win, but, a good puller does with what he or she has to work with, tractor wise or finacial. I know I got crazy with a Farmall H years back, over 10 years, probably have 20 thousand dollars in it,,, but it sure did run good! My M, if I got $1500 in the whole tractor, and have just as much or if not, more fun than I have ever had! And thats what its all about, having fun, see who can out pull who, or in our case, the highest percentage wins. email is ChadS3@hotmail.com feel free to contact me anytime. ChadS

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