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G John Deere Needs More HP

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Brandon

05-29-2002 15:19:56

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I pull a 1951 G John Deere that I bought last summer. It powers out in the 5600# and 6600# classes. I am pulling up into the top 5 at every pull, but I lose power. I have no idea if it has ever been rebuilt or the horsepower it has. I am currently running 93 octane pump gas, Champion D21 plugs, electronic ignition with 8mm wires and hot coil, and it has a k&n air filter. I was wondering if anybody would have any ideas of what would give me a little more power such has hotter plugs and racing fuel. Thanks in advance for any info.

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Andy

05-31-2002 20:20:52

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

just my opinion but i wouldnt do anything to one of my tractors that couldnt be undone. its not my business what you do with your tractors whether restore em to mint and only drive em on and off the trailer ot build em up and pull. but things break no matter if its JD or IH just my 2 cents... id try to work with the timing a little and the carb if you havent already. Andy

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Deere Puller

05-30-2002 13:15:56

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

One thing you may want to check is your aircleaner setup. Those "G"'s take a VERY deep breath and in order to feed it the air, you nee a good sized K&N to get it done w/o restriction. It may say that it flows xxx cfm, but that is over the course of an entire minute w/ 8 small cylinders breathing from the pipe. On a 2 cyl 400 cid motor, when it draws, it needs 200 ci of air RIGHT NOW. If the airway is restricted, it will not make much power. Fellow at Jeg's told me that based on the size of each cylinder, my "G" needed a 6" round x 7" tall K&N to flow the air needed at 1800 rpms. You've already heard about the dyno, so I won't preach there - If you have a good steep hill around your place on a paved road, make a test run in road gear & draw the motor down with your brakes. Then disconnect the aircleaner & repeat - If she's not getting enough air, it'll be tougher to draw down and will pick back up much sooner. Never hurts to give it a try - my first attempt at paper filtration caused me to drastically enlarge the size of the element...I believe that K&N has some formulas for you to play with on their site, but they are primarily geared for 8 cyl engines

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burns

05-29-2002 20:21:04

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

Brandon could you provide a little more information.

Tire size and rim size?
Length of drawbar from center of the axle?
How does it run prior to powering out? Smooth, rough, sputter. Is a slow death or does it fall quickly prior to powering out.

Have you tried other plugs? IMHO, champion plugs are an inferior product. I have had good success with Autolite 3116 and 388. I have heard of equal success with AC 386 387.

Unless your timing is way off or your carb is really not working to it's potential, you probably won't see that big of a gain in HP without going into the motor or at least the head.

Drop me an email if you any questions.

My 49 G

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Brandon

05-30-2002 04:47:39

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Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-29-2002 20:21:04

I have 14.9X38 tires on 11" pressed steel rims. My drawbar is 20" high and 18" back from center of axle. It runs smooth before powering out. It doesn't spit and sput around. It just runs out of horses. Thanks for the replies.

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burns

05-30-2002 05:42:00

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Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-30-2002 04:47:39

Certainly difficult to help when you can't see the tractor in action. Right after my G was purchased, it coughed and sputtered like an asthmatic monkey cleaning out silo while smoking a crack pipe. I too was powering out in the 6500# classes. Had the carb COMPLETELY rebuilt from Robert's Carb and ended up winning the 9000# class a couple weeks later. The suggestion for putting your tractor on the dyno is the way to go if you have access to one. Once on the dyno, loosen the distributor and rotate it ever so slowly and watch the pto rpm. If it goes up, wind the tractor back down to 540 and if slows down then go back where you were. By dialing in your timing for a certain rpm range, you are well on your way to success.

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Johndeereyellow

05-30-2002 12:05:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-30-2002 05:42:00

Burns:::::::::::>>>>>>>>>>> That must have been the same Monkey I once knew, so he came to visit you too.

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Jack

05-29-2002 20:13:18

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

Advance the timing till it won't hardly start with the starter unless you open the TWO petcocks.That will be your best hp at 540 rpm's.A dyno is priceless in your case.By the way,what is your compression on both cylinders,it does matter?Hope to hear from you.Jack(TN).

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ken

05-29-2002 19:46:46

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

Sounds like weak compression as has already been mentioned.I have pulled against several stock G tractors and at 5600 and 6600 lbs. they were not having any trouble spinning the tires with a 20 inch drawbar height and a short chain.Sounds like your weights are perfect with a two or three inch clearence.

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G-MAN - made a mistake....

05-29-2002 15:49:15

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

I made a mistake in my post - the stroked cranks will up your displacement, as well as your compression.

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Brandon

05-29-2002 15:57:40

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Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to G-MAN - made a mistake...., 05-29-2002 15:49:15

Thanks for the quick reply. All I've done to the tractor is adjust the carb. I'm really looking for some easy horsepower (which is probably not possible) that I can make without tearing down the tractor in the middle of the pulling season. Thanks.

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G-MAN

05-29-2002 16:12:00

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Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:57:40

I don't know how much more "easy" horsepower you can find at this point. If you have access to a dyno, you can run your tractor and tweak it (timing, carb adjustments, plug types, etc) to really maximize what you have now, but beyond that it's really hard to tell what you're gaining, because there are so many variables from pull to pull. You mentioned that you power out. Have you tried making some changes in how your tractor is weighted? What gear are you pulling in?
I'm not a pulling expert, but if you're powering out in first gear in those light classes, I would think that would be kind of odd. I would think even a stock G would have the power to spin the tires in low gear, but once again there are a lot of variables. If you're pulling second gear, maybe try dropping to first and using a little more of the built-in lugging ability of your tractor to get you farther down the track. Sometimes slow is the best approach, especially with two-lungers. These are all just suggestions, as I haven't even pulled my G yet, I'm still in the building process. But I have pulled other tractors and pickups, and I know how frustrating it can be to work so hard and not get the results you want. Good luck with your tractor.

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Brandon

05-29-2002 16:20:34

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Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to G-MAN, 05-29-2002 16:12:00

I think I am weighted just about right. I set my hitch at the maximum allowed 20", and my front end comes off of the ground 3"-4" at the end of the pull. I am pulling in 1st gear. I also think that it is a little odd for it to power out. I have shortened the linkage between the carb and governor to make it run at a higher rpm, and I think that helped me a little bit at the last pull I went to. I placed 4th and was just 11 feet off of 1st place before it powered out. The tractor runs and sounds strong and doesn't smoke a bit. I guess I need to find a dyno.

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JOhn

05-29-2002 19:46:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 16:20:34

just have the block bored out .125 and put alum. pistons in it, and you'll have 65hp. On a hard clay track in those classes will be hard to stop you.
John

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burns

05-29-2002 20:12:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to JOhn, 05-29-2002 19:46:43

65 hp is certainly very obtainable but it does take more than just .125 aluminum pistons.

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520-LP

05-30-2002 20:46:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-29-2002 20:12:01

Helped build a G this winter with 125 alum,flat head and cam work it has 70-72 hp

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burns

05-31-2002 02:53:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to 520-LP, 05-30-2002 20:46:29

Sure with head and cam work but I my only point is not to discredit obtainable HP but to only point out that it takes more than just .125 aluminum pistons.

That is some good HP I bet the ol' G is a thumper!

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520-LP

05-31-2002 20:02:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-31-2002 02:53:13

Pulled sat. 2nd place in 5600 1st in 6600 2nd in 8600

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G Taylor

05-31-2002 21:30:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to 520-LP, 05-31-2002 20:02:32

While there is nothing wrong with a G, I too would rather put my money into a 520/530 for reasonably stock pulling plus have three point, PS,love pto & live hydraulics.As J.R.Hobbs pointed out in one of his books they can pull right past a stock G and often do. Even our stock 50 is a suprisingly good puller in the 5500 lb class on just 45 degree 11.2x38's. Keep missing 1st prize but have a 2nd & 3rd.

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John

05-30-2002 05:21:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-29-2002 20:12:01

not really, My cuz got 60hp with .90 and nothing else. port and polishing the head will surely get u 65 with .125 overs.
JOhn

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burns

05-30-2002 06:09:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to John, 05-30-2002 05:21:55

I don't doubt the hp rating but if Brandon has a 51 then he is dealing with a cylone head. A simple .090 or .125 overbore kit with aluminum pistons and absolutely nothing else will not give him 60 hp. Throw a ported flat head or heavily milled, ported cylone head, a F900R cam, and some other goodies...then we are talking 60-70hp.

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Jack

05-30-2002 08:18:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-30-2002 06:09:30

Just aluminum pistons,stock cam,stock carb,gas manifold your lookin at 55 hp.Seen it on the dyno and that was with the head cut down .150 thousanths.

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burns

05-30-2002 08:42:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Jack, 05-30-2002 08:18:10

I just don't want someone thinking that if they bore there block .125 and bolt everything back on they will see a huge gain in HP. Quite frankly, I would guess you would only see 5-6 hp under those circumstances. I'm all for helping someone

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Jack

05-30-2002 09:57:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to burns, 05-30-2002 08:42:57

Thats right!If someone wanted more than 55 horses I suppose he would have to put in a cam and do some cute polishing and porting.I wonder what the most a person could get out of a G without stroking?Have you heard any figures?

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Depends on the dyno

05-30-2002 11:27:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Jack, 05-30-2002 09:57:54

Jack I have heard as high as 72 hp without stroking. I have heard of 75 with a 8 1/4" stroke. Now we are talking a difference of 3 hp. I have seen my G show between 58-69 hp within a few weeks difference but on different dynos. What I felt was the most accurate was when the reading was given based on the hydraulic pressure and not the needle reading (65hp).

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JDGnut

05-30-2002 11:04:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Jack, 05-30-2002 09:57:54

You can get in the mid 70'sHP without stroking it, with either head.. but the flat head can be ported BIG.. with bigger valves.. It will take you some work to get there.. Check your rules on the head, different classes let you run different heads, some don't..
JDGnut

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G-MAN

05-29-2002 15:34:00

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Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Brandon, 05-29-2002 15:19:56

Brandon, it sounds like you've got a good start on making more power with the electronic ignition, K&N filter, etc. Have you tried a good tuneup? Check compression, adjust valves, adjust the carb, check rpm, etc? The racing fuel isn't going to help unless you have the compression to utilize it. I've seen guys post and say that racing fuel actually cost them horsepower on the dyno compared to pump gas. You might call Robert's Carburetor Repair and talk to him - he builds Super 51s that are supposed to be good carbs, but I don't know how much they would gain you on a stock tractor. After that, you're probably looking at increased compression and/or displacement. Stroked cranks, flat heads, shaved heads and blocks, and the like will help you in the compression department, and power blocks and such will help you in the displacement area. Basically you have to start by figuring out what you want from the tractor and what your budget is, and go from there. The sky is pretty much the limit in terms of what you can build and what you can spend. There are some very knowledgeable people on here that can help you tremendously once you know what direction you want to take - good luck with your tractor.

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bigmotors

05-29-2002 22:44:42

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Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to G-MAN, 05-29-2002 15:34:00

Have someone watch your governor and carb. to see if they are opening up all the way when your pulling. Try a lower drawbar, try a 1/2 a inch at first.
You could also try a smaller tire size. A good running stock G should take 5600 lbs. Again - find a dyno!
If your G is almost stock, your hurting yourself with racing fuel. This will take away your tug a lug, if - you do not have the motor to back it up.
If nothing seems to work, find the beer tent.
Wish you good luck - and enjoy the sport.

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Jack

05-30-2002 08:21:35

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Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to bigmotors, 05-29-2002 22:44:42

I like the way you think,especially the tent notion.

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Karl D

06-04-2002 20:57:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Jack, 05-30-2002 08:21:35

I have got a 46 G with 75 hp with no stroke just a hot mag and shuller grind on the cam and roller rockers and 90thousands M and W high compression pistons and a jerrys head and manifold and roberts supper 51 carb job

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Lencollings

07-12-2006 08:05:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Karl D, 06-04-2002 20:57:51

Where do you get a shuller cam grind done?

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Seamo

06-07-2002 14:40:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Karl D, 06-04-2002 20:57:51

Where do you pull Karl ? Do you belong to a club? Earl

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KarlD

06-04-2002 21:07:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: G John Deere Needs More HP in reply to Karl D, 06-04-2002 20:57:51

and a k/n air filter

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