Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum

More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes.

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
SPT

06-05-2002 13:35:54




Report to Moderator

New at pulling, asking some basic questions on electronic ignitions. Tractor: 88 Oliver 150-160 ibs. compression, big valves, port & polish, high dome pistons, shaved head, nothing very exotic.
1. What advantages will I see with installation of electronic ign. hot coil, and good plug wires?
2. Does the savings in points and plugs warrant the initial cost?
3. What is the life expentancy of electronic ign.?
4. With this set up, do I even need to consider a MSD box?
Thanks in advance for all info.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
HammerTime

06-07-2002 12:57:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to SPT, 06-05-2002 13:35:54  
I had that question about a month ago.I got the PERTRONIX unit for my Farmall from Denney,s for 75$ 2days later it was at my door Best 75$I,ve spent so far. I,m running a stock 12 volt coil.I gapped the plugs @ 35 It runs GREAT AND LUGS like a champ You will like it



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallflogger

06-07-2002 05:01:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to SPT, 06-05-2002 13:35:54  
I'd have to agree with burns on this one. Put in a petronixs kit and hotter coil a while back and the tractor starts better, runs smoother, and lugs better, and that was without changing anything else.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-07-2002 05:21:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to farmallflogger, 06-07-2002 05:01:59  
Did you ever think it was the hotter coil that gave you the better preformance? You can run a hotter coil with the points.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallflogger

06-07-2002 12:10:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-07-2002 05:21:24  
Nope had to be the electronic conversion...Sorry sparky



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-07-2002 13:12:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to farmallflogger, 06-07-2002 12:10:13  
I'm suprised by your answer. You must be a JD guy.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallflogger

06-07-2002 13:18:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-07-2002 13:12:05  
Naw a rusty old M, and burns guess what? It has a dip-stick. Must be a rare proto-type or something.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
deadeye

06-08-2002 04:46:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to farmallflogger, 06-07-2002 13:18:45  
Yea, with one of those rare 450 blocks.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-06-2002 07:14:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to SPT, 06-05-2002 13:35:54  
If you are looking for more power, the electronic ign and MSD is a waste of money. If you have an old coil and burnt points, you might see a small gain. But if you have good points and coil the gain will not be noticeable. $400 for 1 to 2 more horsepower? Save your money for a cam or carb.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
burns

06-06-2002 09:42:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-06-2002 07:14:32  
I agree that the cam and carb are a must but spend $X,000 on an engine rebuild to not have the ignition to run is a waste of money too.

The 6A msd box is sold for $150, coil $33, and 8mm MSD wires for $40.

Not trying to start an arguement but I am looking at it from the other side. I'd rather spend $225 and gain 1 to 2 hp then not spend the money and lose 10-15 hp because the darn tractor won't run smooth. I guess it depends on the wallet.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-06-2002 09:52:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to burns, 06-06-2002 09:42:07  
I don't understand your numbers. You might gain 1 or 2 horsepower but you lose what???
You need to do some dyno testing before you go around telling how much the MSD will improve the horsepower. I have dyno plenty of pulling tractors before and after. I know the MSD and electronic ign is a waste of money if you are looking for more horsepower.
Look at all the replies below. The all say the MSD help the idle but no noticable gain in horsepower.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
burns

06-06-2002 13:01:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-06-2002 09:52:22  
#1 I have lost my share of hearing while standing next to a dyno. #2 Maybe the 10-15 HP loss is a high value but there is the potential for an engine to lose HP but not having a good ignition system. #3 The other twist to the whole thing is maintaining the potential of the engine while going down the track. Before I did the recents mods to my JD G, one of the early changes I made after it was purchased was to add the Pertronix magnetic pickup and hotter coil. The tractor ran better, it did not power out as quick, and it lugged better. I can't give any kind of HP value but what a difference.

Look, I am not saying SPT should go out and buy one because it will make 40 more HP. In my original post, I made it clear that I thought he was in the questionable area whether is was necessary or not. But if it helps maintain the strength of the tractor from idle--midrange--WOT, then it will be money well spent. Hope this is a little clearier

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-06-2002 14:06:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to burns, 06-06-2002 13:01:54  
No it is not clearer. It sounds like you want everbody to buy a MSD box because you did, not because it gmakes more power. I would bet your improvements from the MSD was copared to the original coil, wires, and plugs. Not really an apples to apples thing. I have spent countless hours on the dyno also. (I'm smart enought to wear hearing protection.) I have tested plenty on DIFFERENT pulling tractor. I have seen no power gain from the Pertronix ignition or MSD if it is running under 4500 rpm and running gas. The Pertronix ignition is waste of money that could be better used elsewhere.
Maybe if you're to lazy or not smart enough to change points the Pertronix might be for you.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
burns

06-06-2002 17:13:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-06-2002 14:06:27  
Well Sporky apparently your view is that all electronic components have no business being installed on any type of tractor. I happen to disagree with you on the usefulness and application of such units. It doesn't reflect anyone's intelligence level when there is a disagreement. But if one chooses to follow a narrow minded, egocentric thought process like my nine year old, well so be it. But I can share one fact that I am 100% correct on…I don't give a rat's a$$ whether SPT or anyone else on this board purchases a pertronix, MSD, Jacobs…or whatever electronic device. I've shared my experience, Jack shared his, and you have shared yours. So………I also believe that there are enough educated people smart enough to make up there own minds whether or not to buy one of these units. It has been fun discussing this and by all means feel free to drop me an email so that we don't take up anymore server space or bandwidth from Kim's board.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike F

06-06-2002 20:01:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to burns, 06-06-2002 17:13:41  
I run a msd box and I can tell you also that I didn't install it to try to make HP. But what it does do, from my experience is clean up the plugs. This is a guarentee. I also don't have to worry about points getting badly pitted or burnt, because what an msd does is uses the points gap to send a trigger signal, unless the points get absolutely ruined, it will trigger the msd, fact. Also, my #5 box was the cheap one, not too much up front, I almost did get the #6 box which I feel is fine too, I just didn't win that much the prior year to justify buying it. Fact is that msd has a product that works or they wouldn't be in the electronic ignition business. Also think about the number of muscle cars and other vehicles using a msd, it must work or people would not buy them, it comes down to cutting maintenance on always keeping real close tabs on your points , and more spark. I remember the old days of getting out the dwell meter and re-tuning my old ignition and it was a tiresome thing if you wanted to get the proper performance out of your ride, then in the mid 70's everybody went to some sort of electronic get-up. So the point here is, that the electronic ignitions do work, don't have to put plugs in much at all and no points to mess with. sounds like a good thing to me. I think we all pretty much know that you have to get the ponies from the inside, but a good ignition will enhance this performance by less upkeep. Nobody like the idea of computers at first either, but here we all are!!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jack

06-06-2002 12:13:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-06-2002 09:52:22  
I did see this!On a 50 JD G there was 47 hp showing on the dyno.That was all that could be had no matter where the distributor was set and load needle was set while using brand new points.Now,having never unhooked from the dyno the points were removed and a Pertronix ignition and Flamethrower coil was added.At first the horses remained at 47 until the distributor was advanced and then the carb was richened up more too.The last reading was 55 HP.Directly it seemed to do nothing but indirectly it allowed a higher timing setting and a little more fuel.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Sparky

06-06-2002 13:49:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Jack, 06-06-2002 12:13:42  
So you changed the timing AND the carb and got more horsepower. That has nothing to do with the Pertronix ignition. Yes a hotter coil will give you more spark, but you can use it with the points.
My point is you will not gain any more horsepower with the Pertronix ignition than points IF the points and coil are good.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G-MAN

06-06-2002 15:21:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Sparky, 06-06-2002 13:49:07  
Sparky, go back and re-read Jack's post again. It says that 47 hp was the max regardless of distributor timing or LOAD NEEDLE POSITION. After the electronic ignition was set up and tweaked (timing and the SAME carb), the tractor developed 8 hp more. You have been rude in every one of your posts and it's simply not called for. Your opinion is not worth any more than Jacks, burns' or mine, so lighten up. The guy in the original post was looking for some helpful advice, not a big war over ignition systems. And yes, points systems are reliable when maintained properly, but the electronic ignition set-up pretty much eliminates ever having to even mess with them again - sounds like a good deal in my book. Our shop has also had some experience installing electronic ignitions on New Generation tractors - especially LP tractors, and it makes a tremendous difference in the starting, response, and overall performance of the engine - even compared to a point system with good points, coil, etc.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jack

06-06-2002 19:10:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to G-MAN, 06-06-2002 15:21:39  
Thank you Gman.I thought I worded it plain enough for anyone to understand.Just points and just the electronic pick up maybe there would not be too much difference but on this tractor I am talking about there was two other guys there that can verify without a doubt that there was an eight hp gain,PERIOD.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
What??

06-06-2002 19:37:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Jack, 06-06-2002 19:10:37  
I think sparky's point was that you can get a hotter spark with a different coil and points. Maybe that was where you got more power and not the pertronics.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
G Taylor

06-06-2002 20:36:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to What??, 06-06-2002 19:37:52  
Too many people figure if they install a super mega wopper turbo zap blitzburg ignition system on a stock engine along with a tank of premium fuel... they will gain 25% more HP. The pointless triggered MSD system will jump a hotter spark across a wider plug gap than any point system. Manditory for any lean clean idle mixtures, high compression or turbo/supercharged application. The MSD box will also maintain full power with less spark advance & less chance of detonation with long flame travel combustion chamber designs.Especially on two cylinder JD's with side mounted plugs & 6 inch plus piston widths. The MSB will also give the 2nd,3rd,4th etc chance to ignite the mixture if the 1st spark doesn't light. MSD is just a more forgiving system allowing operation in mechanical extremes of design or lack of maintenance.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
burns

06-05-2002 19:11:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to SPT, 06-05-2002 13:35:54  
First off I'm not an Oliver guy, never even sat on one. But here is my opinion

#1 Not going to see a night and day difference with a big HP gain but will end up with a smooth running tractor because of the increase in effiency of the ignition system. More effecient burn, increase in plug gap, better conduction of electricity with good wires

#2 Do away with the points all together if you have gone this far. The pertronix kits are compatible with plug and play features. Cost is not an option when going after that .50 cent ribbon. LOL

#3 Don't know

#4 I would guess that you are entering the gray area. Depending on your rpm range would certainly be a factor. If nothing else, go with it and have a little over kill. Again money is not an option when filling the trophy shelf.


I have tried butter, crisco, soy sauce, but those trophies and ribbons still don't taste like chicken. 8^)

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
johndeereyellow

06-06-2002 06:32:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to burns, 06-05-2002 19:11:42  
Burns:::::::::>>>>>>>> Way to go. I agree with you on the ribbons not tasting like chicken. I have put out a lot of money in this sport and could have bought Prime rib, but as you know tractor pulling is in our blood, win or lose.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
770

06-06-2002 15:41:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to johndeereyellow, 06-06-2002 06:32:20  
You will not gain ANY horsepower with electronic ignition and a good coil????? ? Sparky, better get your dyno fixed... 3 horses on my ollie. A real puller wouldn't blink about spending $100 for 3 horses. And as for Burns and G-man,.... your right. A ribbon doesn't taste like chicken..... .(ha ha)....



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
SPT

06-06-2002 04:15:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to burns, 06-05-2002 19:11:42  
Thanks Burns for the info. You are right about the ribbons and trophies, but still havn't found anything I enjoy more than tractor pullin. Always a good day when pulling, better when you win.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill

06-06-2002 18:52:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to SPT, 06-06-2002 04:15:48  
SPT,
I have put a MSD and Pertronix ignition on my 88 so it would run smoother and hopefully gain horsepower. It does run smooth but I have never checked the gain in horsepower. The MSD box gives the ability to run the points or the electronic ignition. I think it runs better and therefore will run better down the track.

One thing I have noticed with the Pertronix ignition is the magnet ring that you put on the lobes of the dist. is slightly loose so it may affect your timing unless you lock it down some way. If you do so you will have to bore the plate out where the magnetic pickup is mounted if you need to get it out.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Aylward

06-07-2002 06:19:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: More on electronic ign. and MSD boxes. in reply to Bill, 06-06-2002 18:52:53  
Bill, I installed a Pertronix kit on my 60 John Deere and it fit very snugly. It didn't have to be forced on but fit pretty tight. Everyone has their own opinion but it was well worth the cost to install it. Mike



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy