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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Cheaters

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Stroker G

01-23-2008 13:14:41

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With the Pulling season just around the corner, the cheaters are sitting in there chairs or in their garages thinking of new ways to cheat. There are some pullers out there who are like criminals. These folks spend more time trying to think of new ways to cheat than to follow the rules as the average guy who is there to have a good time. I have noticed that once one gets a cheater lable it seems to stick with that person long time So those of you how cheat: If you can"t stand being beat the bottom line here is that you are a pore sport and a "swore looser". See you at the pulls "Cheater"

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EricSW PA

01-27-2008 08:59:38

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

I pull a AC and ive came to a concluson that most of the cheaters look for something easy to chaeat with therfore explaining why you see so many IHs at antique pull i have a Wc and ive beet many crappy Olivers with it so bring them on 66s 77s 88s dont care and i run 1720 Rpm 10% offer stock

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oliver gets it done

01-27-2008 07:53:24

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

i think im going to start a pull type combine pull it would be the fairest of all for every one draw bar hieght would have to match combine. rpms would have to be 540pto and speed would have to match what you got power for in what gear at factory shipping weight and factory 540pto rpms i quess the the arguement would be the thick ness of the crop and type off soil your pulling in ?

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jd b puller

01-25-2008 19:28:00

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

[quote="AC"](quoted from post at 23:18:22 01/25/08) If it wernt for the deeres, you could have 1 rpm rule for everything. but a say, 2200 rpm deere, HA! Get a good insurance policy..quote]

AC, you should see the rules "down south". There's basically 2 classes
- 3.5MPH Top cuts and
- bring what ya brung, any speed, any cut, any gear, 2500 RPM's. Doesn't matter what the tractor is.

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Kyle(IA)

01-25-2008 17:28:08

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

In 06 I had one of my worst years. In 07 I made alots of changes to chassis, engines & weight distributions & had one of my best years with alot of top 3"s, then came the boo-birds. I went through a fuel check once, an actual tear down to prove cu inch was in limits & fianlly a reweight after winning hook plus check hitch at the scale. The fellas who did all the whining, one was caught earlier in the year blatently cheating & the other two are running outdated powerplants. Once you win, people just get suspicious, it"s in most of their nature to want to be the big dog or have the advantage but once they loose it, it sucks. It"s easier to gripe than reload, but not nearly as much fun. I"ll probably loose those good days sometime in the future to someone else, then it"s time to go back & do a little homework!

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Amen to That

01-26-2008 16:13:46

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Kyle(IA), 01-25-2008 17:28:08

Well Said. Kyle

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Not Red or Green

01-25-2008 12:02:32

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Best way to find a cheater? Show up with an off-the-wall tractor and beat the common stuff. The cheater will be the first to cry. Or beat the guy that wins the most.

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Charles E. McNelly III

01-25-2008 11:42:57

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Cheaters? Rules? It's all a matter of interpretation so they say. Charles

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ShaggyM

01-24-2008 19:42:48

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

There are no Cheaters! Just different way of interperting the rules! I think that came from a Nascar Crew Chief.
Shaggy

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LEGAL

01-24-2008 18:43:00

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

"THE GUY THAT CHEATS THE BEST WINS THE MOST."

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stroker 88

01-24-2008 17:18:48

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

always remember he who cheats the best usually wins. the rest just whine. he who whines the most is most likely cheating. on the other hand. if it's fun, it probably isn't profitable. if it's profitable, it probably isn't fun. so if it isn't fun or profitable why the hell are we doing it?

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apz*jr

01-24-2008 13:33:58

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

We have scale where I pull and even then, people complain about the weight they're at, saying its 20 pounds over or something, and we provice lots of leniency. Its actually only about 10 pounds off.

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hot rod A

01-24-2008 10:14:38

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Bobby Allison was once asked in an interview after a race "how do you know he's cheating" and his reply "Because I'm cheating and he's beating me!" Basically theres no clear cut answer--what is cheating, what is not. Where do you draw the line. Most of the tractors that are popular pullers are 40 to 70 years old, and most of them have rebuilt motors. Is a .045 cleanup overbore cheating? If not, is .090 over? Secondly, it is mighty tough finding a good set of used cast iron oversize pistons, let alone at a reasonable price, whereas you can get a brand new set of aluminum high compression pistons new w/rings and pins pretty reasonably. Are they illegal? Basically just put up or shut up. Have a speed limit and an RPM limit, and forget about the rest!

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mlpankey

01-24-2008 10:05:45

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

to quote a few movies win if you can loose if you must but always always cheat . excusses are for loosers. quote smokey yunick as long as there are rules theyll be holes you just got to find them.

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jakee

01-24-2008 08:16:46

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

(i love all of the above)all you have to do is start tearing the winners down and all the fudging will come to a stop.theres a thing called a P&GR for checking cubic inches,very easy to run and reads with in 2 to 5 cubes.once they no you are going to check them the games stop,START RUNNING PULLS LIKE PROS clean up a few pulls and when the word gets out they will start coming the way they should be, and have some classes for the hot dog tractors, a place for every one.tractors should not be allowed more than 100 pounds under there shipping weight.has there been a pull were there were to many tractors? i think the crowed is getting thinner every year.when was the last time fuel was checked in every tractor?go to a drag race some time and be asked to tear down, and refuse and see were it gets you. and every year they limet the entries.

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pg n R

01-24-2008 13:03:02

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Re: Cheaters in reply to jakee, 01-24-2008 08:16:46

So what's that gizmo cost?

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lbj

01-23-2008 20:24:50

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

The second time I ever pulled I over heard some old pullers talking, one of them said there"s only two kind"s of puller"s, cheater"s and looser"s. I give that a lot of thought and I"ve been winning a lot ever since. That was over 15 year"s a go. I just love to here the guy"s with the briar patch tractor"s cry.

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Dairy Farmer in WI

01-23-2008 19:12:38

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

in additon, would you really want to put o thousands of dollars into a tractor just pay a $20 plus entry fee per class, only to MAYBE win $100 or a cheapo plastic trophy. my cousin was is like that, he re-builds his tractor every year, burns through clutches like no tomorrow, is payin' $3.60 + for fuel and winnin' maybe 3 pulls outta 4 ( shakes his head) he's in his 20's and still lives at home and i mean late 20's. it's an expensive sport. i got better things to spend thousands on. don't let it eat ya up too much
DF in WI

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Dairy Farmer in WI

01-23-2008 19:01:20

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

nowdays you gotta cheat to win. no one knows the TRUE meaning of FARM STOCK any more. everyone is bored or stroked to about twice the horsepower. but then again i pull just fer the fun of it. i mean c'mon how do you think a STOCK and i mean STOCK Farmall m will win anymore. i gave up on pulling to win years ago. i just like to see what my tractors can do now. some pulls say they are gonna check fer stock parts ect but never do. i mean how are you gonna check? have them tear the head off amd make sure they have correct pistion size? there is no help in preventing it nowdays unless you go to strictly antique shows but even then...
DF in WI

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01-23-2008 18:29:36

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Here's something that I've been wonderin that i think fits in this topic... What do you call it when certain tractors are not allowed below a certain weight class even though manufacturers shipping weights (including tires, fluids, ect) would put them in the weight classes that they're not allowed to be in? also, What's up with allowing certain models of tractors run the RPM's of their replacement models? example, Farmall M can run Farmall 400 Rpm's. I might not be right on the models, but you know what i mean. AC's are allowed to do that certain places too. But a Oliver 88 Can't run oliver 880 Rpm's. I believe this is what's called enough cheaters getting together to make a rule. Sore cheaters getting pouty about getting their a$$es stopmed by a legal tractor.

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Jack a

01-25-2008 07:05:22

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Re: Cheaters in reply to BM, 01-23-2008 18:29:36

The club in my area outlawed the WC completely for awhile. Another thing they allowed tires to be a size wider than Nebraska Stock except the D17. Couldn't put taller tires either. Then next change was to allow everyone to go up to 18.4 wide but can't change diameter so again Allis could only put so much rubber on the ground. I say stock should be stock. A D17 with 16.9x28 goes against a 720 with 15.5x38. About the same rubber on the ground.

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01-25-2008 09:44:22

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Jack a, 01-25-2008 07:05:22

According to the firestone tire data book a 16.9X28 has a larger footprint than a 15.5X38

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randy hall

01-23-2008 19:09:44

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Re: Cheaters in reply to BM, 01-23-2008 18:29:36

farmall m no load rpm 1595, farmall 400 no load rpm 1600. i fail to see the unfair advantage.

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01-24-2008 04:30:42

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Re: Cheaters in reply to randy hall, 01-23-2008 19:09:44

Well maybe it's a 450 then. I told you i may be wrong on the model numbers. Big Deal. I know good and well it's a thing that alot of places do.

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Like NATPA

01-24-2008 08:14:51

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Re: Cheaters in reply to BM, 01-24-2008 04:30:42

Thats known as the AC rule in NATPA. D17 RPM plus the 10%, 20% ECT. In some classes that gives the WC a 400 RPM advatage over stock.

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01-24-2008 08:33:17

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Like NATPA, 01-24-2008 08:14:51

Hmm, @ 20%, still 200 less than a Farmall H, 700 less than a Ford, and 50 or so less than a 77 Oliver. So whats your point?

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Point is:

01-24-2008 10:02:33

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Re: Cheaters in reply to AC, 01-24-2008 08:33:17

Point is: No other brand got the RPM favoritism. I guess the AC need the cripple rule to compete. This rule was never voted in by the membership rather by two board members named Burch and Bear. Point is NATPA is just plain crooked when it comes to the RPM rule. Tell me why no other organization other than NATPA has to have there own special RPM chart? Its because they have to have special cripple rules for special cripple tractors. When Burch failed to win with his Cripple AC the rules got changed without membership knowing or voting on it. Point is it was wrong then and still wrong. Burch finally gave up on his cripple even with his special RPM rule and went to pulling an Oliver. Rule never got changed back to what other organization run, just stayed special just for the crooked NATPA!! Now I hope you got the point. If you want/have to have the RPM of other brands of tractor to be competitive go pull one and not rely on special cripple rules just for your AC tractor. Don't make no difference to me as I quit pulling NATPA the moment I learned about this crooked business, that was about eight yeas ago. Fact is can't hide behind the facts as all you have to do as look at the NATPA crooked RPM chart. Its all spelled out black and white. Special rules for special needs tractors.

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rpm's

01-26-2008 07:54:40

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Point is:, 01-24-2008 10:02:33

I see where USAP gives AC's the same rpm! interesting

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Mopower

01-25-2008 15:17:19

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Point is:, 01-24-2008 10:02:33

Using the WC/D-17 RPM logic, a Moline UB should use 5-star RPMs. How bout that?

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ChadS

01-26-2008 07:59:23

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Mopower, 01-25-2008 15:17:19

Id start looking for scatter blankets. JMHO. What you guys are saying, sounds OK for a more open class, but still stock/upgraded blocks. Up to 6 mph. Under 4 mph, classes like that is where you find alot of older engines, some may still be on their second overhaul in their life. Think about it, thats a long time being assembled. Things loosen up. Then take the rpm limits and turn em loose on the same tractors, well, something is gonna give. Now granted, most pullers these days are pretty "fresh", and the bolts are hopefully torqued right. They can withstand a little more rpm. Not the older farm tractors. Not without some sort of extra protection, does a tractor runing under 4 mph, need more than 10% of what ever chassis its sitting in. Remember the 460-660 IH rpm battle? 1900 is a far cry from 2640, and they tried that, they have been there, they bent the rules, they made the rules, they threw out the rules. But they sell scatter blankets. ChadS

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Mopower

01-27-2008 18:04:03

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Re: Cheaters in reply to ChadS, 01-26-2008 07:59:23

I backed off my rpm and lost my gear advantage. Time for a slower ring and pinion, but an extra 10 horsepower would help. the old Minnie runs good at 1800 rpm. No scatterblanket necessary at 1980. I did learn of an 800 block G running 4000 but it blew a couple times but not till it kicked some booty.

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01-25-2008 19:19:07

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Mopower, 01-25-2008 15:17:19

What do you mean? You already do ;)

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01-25-2008 19:18:59

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Mopower, 01-25-2008 15:17:19

What do you mean? You already do ;)

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Past NATPA Member

01-25-2008 18:31:36

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Mopower, 01-25-2008 15:17:19

You are absolutely right! To bad Bill Burch didn't pull one of those or that UB didn't have Allis Chalmers on the hood cause I am sure you would get it then. Your MM gets screwed over along with many other brands. As far as I am concerned every model should get the same percentage of increase the WC got over stock or they all should all go back to Nebraska Test RPM like all honest associations do. But don't expect NAPA to do that. The click runs the show there!

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01-25-2008 19:18:22

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Past NATPA Member, 01-25-2008 18:31:36

I still think it made the rules a little more fair and it made an AC competitive, where before, it was at a major rpm disadvantage. Yes, Iknow it is a CHOICE on what brand to run, but you got to look at the big picture. The stand alone clubs will be out of existance because there just arent THAT many pullers out there. AND,while I'm at it, you guys cant bi^@h too much because its still less RPM than you are running in your ollies and farmalls. Give the deere a powerblock. I dont care. I havent seen but maybe 5 of them that were competitive to begin with, and it brings in more tractors. If it wernt for the deeres, you could have 1 rpm rule for everything. but a say, 2200 rpm deere, HA! Get a good insurance policy..

If more people pulled 350 utilitys, youd scream about that, too.

Sorry to rant, I'm going to bed :) ...AC ..yeah, and some retards think I'm an idiot...but, they are the ones who are scared to show their face. Ha! Wimps.

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Future 77 puller

01-25-2008 06:32:52

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Point is:, 01-24-2008 10:02:33

LMAO!!! to point is,,,,,

You must have been there back in the day when all that crap was going on!!! I was there too! Got took!! Nicely written. and I thought I cheated!!!

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Perfect

01-24-2008 13:16:21

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Point is:, 01-24-2008 10:02:33

How did you put that so very perfect?

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01-24-2008 11:38:58

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Point is:, 01-24-2008 10:02:33

I will say that I do believe things are kept a little "special" as I was told that I couldnt run a tractor that you see around (and there are more of than a darn Custom) because it was a "specialty" tractor. I think they were just worried about a 3000lb, 3000 rpm 6 cylinder that could kick some A.
I couldnt get any more answer than that out of the NATPA board member I talked to.

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fred h

01-24-2008 18:33:19

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Re: Cheaters in reply to AC, 01-24-2008 11:38:58

You are a loser!

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01-24-2008 18:47:22

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Re: Cheaters in reply to fred h, 01-24-2008 18:33:19

If I am, whats that make you, taking time to mess with me? :) ..Have a nice day, AC

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Eddie Haskell

01-23-2008 18:24:16

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

See ya at the track. Catch me if you can! LOL!

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560 Farmall Puller

01-23-2008 17:05:11

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

A long time Hall of Fame puller once told me, Its only cheating if you get caught..... .

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MN dave 2

01-23-2008 16:29:11

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Just what is cheating????? How about the people who spend $10-25000 on motors??? I can compete with someone who has a questionable hitch or tires but I can't make up huge HP differences.

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GRW

01-24-2008 13:28:27

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Re: Cheaters in reply to MN dave 2, 01-23-2008 16:29:11

When it comes to MONEY, WOMEN, and TROPHY'S you have no friends! Deal with it or find a new hobby. The way I see it, the one's that whine the most are people that used to win!

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The Happy Hooker

01-23-2008 16:09:45

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

If you go to the tractor pull you are there to compete and win, if your going to a dance competition you sure wouldn't bring grandma to the dance to win would ya. You would pring you best girl to get the job done! So if Grandma can't win a pull bring your best girl and leave grandma on the porch. so stop your pissing, bitching and whining squealer G.

PS. Have you been wining lately?

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Stroker G

01-23-2008 17:31:55

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Re: Cheaters in reply to The Happy Hooker, 01-23-2008 16:09:45

To the happy hooker: Comparing a dance to a tractor pull is the best way to compare what were trying to get across here. I"ve got several whores that come to the dance on a weekly basis. My are in tip top shape and even the the grandma can swing with the best of them. All my point is that we live in a world where folks have to cheat to get by and that just takes the fun out of the dance. And no I don"t complain I let the girls speak for them selves on any given Saturday!!!! I don"t need to whine Bud

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The Happy Hooker

01-23-2008 20:10:41

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 17:31:55

What tractor is stock? Not that many.

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cheater #1

01-23-2008 15:39:16

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

whats the old saying if you ain"t winning ain"t cheating and if you ain"t cheating ain"t winning.....

come on guys it"s just a disease get over it sign Cheater

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460anger

01-23-2008 15:30:36

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Want to get rid of cheaters do"nt offer any kind of prize they will not show up!!!!!

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gfs

01-24-2008 06:11:58

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Re: Cheaters in reply to 460anger, 01-23-2008 15:30:36

Thats all well and good but I have seen more cheatin for a trophy, most of the time if there is money the big dollars show up.

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ShaggyM

01-23-2008 19:36:04

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Re: Cheaters in reply to 460anger, 01-23-2008 15:30:36

How is the new clutch holding up in the BN?

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460anger

01-24-2008 03:16:01

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Re: Cheaters in reply to ShaggyM, 01-23-2008 19:36:04

Works good so far. Still trying to dial in the n.o.s WE are tring some differnt nozels and pressures want to be able to turn it on just as soon as I take off. looking at a couple different remote valves it should work ok.Still working on hideing the little bottle.I do'nt pull for the money anymore I pull to beat the cheaters!!!!! !!!! It's so easy!!

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ShaggyM

01-24-2008 06:24:41

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Re: Cheaters in reply to 460anger, 01-24-2008 03:16:01

I would love to see that little beast pull!!
They used to make a setup that would shoot little the Nos in little pulses until you got up to a certain speed or rpm. Nos made the one my Buddy had.
Good luck!
Shaggy

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George MacPherson

01-23-2008 15:01:34

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

I think Jack is right when say "they's cheatin and then there's cheatin."

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fristoe

01-23-2008 14:36:18

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

Fristoe county Hoop fair southern Ohio

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TVMAN

01-23-2008 14:35:25

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

You, know the famous words, there are two classes of pullers, losers, and cheaters most people dont like the first bracket have a good day guys

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LumbrJakMan

01-23-2008 13:51:02

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

If anyone needs to learn how to cheat , simply join the Southern Maine Tractor Club !!! Theres more to learn about cheatin there than any other source. Oh and if you speak FRENCH, you can learn more than the average Joe !!!

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Dick Lemmon

01-23-2008 13:44:13

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Speeking Of Cheatin in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

A few years back, mater a fact it was the first year that the turn buckles were to be below the axle. In my area anyway. I was hooking and a different kind of hitch was on this tractor. The turn buckles were on the bottom under the axle. I hooked and watched with interest as the tractor started to move the sled the drawbar started to raise. It was a hot day and I was just giving the hook man from the club to get have a break. Looked to me about 2 inches.
Not sure if it is cheatin or cheatin cheatin. I figured I would make one up about like it to see which it was but stopped pulling before I had a chance.

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Dick Lemmon

01-23-2008 13:32:01

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

There be cheatin and then there be cheatin cheatin. Just plain cheatin is when you think up an advantage that the other pullers aint thunk up yet that aint covered ina rule sheet. That cheatin only lasts until the next pull. Cheatin cheatin is when you add weight or raise your drawbar when a squealer has his back turned. That kind a cheatin only lasts until a non squealer tells a full fledged squealer. (:^D

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George MacPherson

01-23-2008 13:29:00

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Stroker G, 01-23-2008 13:14:41

We have a small club and pull only stock antique and super antique. There are those who try to cheat but the way we look at it is they are only cheating themselves. We feel sorry for those who'll cheat their friends and neighbors for a lousy $8.00 plastic trophy!

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kruser

01-24-2008 16:23:49

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Re: Cheaters in reply to George MacPherson, 01-23-2008 13:29:00

I'm with you on that one. We pull with our neighbors, friends and "new' friends in central Illinois. Most times, it's just nice to load up the tractor, drive and have a good time. Don't have to win - but having a good time is important! We also have to remember that this isn't a RICH man's game so that our kids will remember and maintain the heritage of antique tractors.

Jim K

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ShaggyM

01-25-2008 06:16:02

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Re: Cheaters in reply to kruser, 01-24-2008 16:23:49

Where about in Central IL are you? I am in the North half (by rt80)but in the middle. Shaggy

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B-maniac

01-23-2008 15:32:51

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Re: Cheaters in reply to George MacPherson, 01-23-2008 13:29:00

You hit that right! The people you are talkin' about are neither freinds OR neighbors and when they are caught and held accountable (banned) they will go on to some other type of competition and start all over again there. They have to win , at any cost, no mater what they participate in and will eventually move on and screw up some other sport or activity. Go to a "popular vote" type car show , the guy who drags along the most "freinds" and provides them all a beer and a ballot will win. Then there is always the pittyfull sandbaggers in any competition that gives handicap to give the underdogs a fightin' chance. They are out there everywhere and about all you can do is EXPOSE them to the crowd and participants. Eventually they will leave because even they don't want to be jeered to death. People who cheat in a tractor pull are the same ones who cheat at life and there everyday dealings with other people. They didn't just pick out pullin' and say " I think I will cheat a little here today".

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88s

01-24-2008 14:39:17

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Re: Cheaters in reply to B-maniac, 01-23-2008 15:32:51

Very well put B-maniac!High dollar strokers with uncut or top cut tires(which ever certain clubs allow)pulling farm and super farm.Whippin ole Joe that just pulled off his Bush Hog and washed his tractor to have some fun was so important that it was worth all the money spent.

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Barnheater

01-24-2008 15:59:53

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Re: Cheaters in reply to 88s, 01-24-2008 14:39:17

88s, I don't think that pullers spend the money on their "pullin" tractors, just to go out & beat Ole Bush Hog Joe, who went to the pulls to have some fun, I think they do it to compete with all the other pullers they pull against every week. The pullers that go every week really enjoy the competion or they wouldn't do it. But the problem that happens at alot of pulls is when Ole Bush Hog Joe gets beat, he starts crying the blues. I think Ole Joe should realize he's at a pull & that he shouldn't expect to win against the fellas that do this all the time. Maybe Ole Joe should challange one of them big stroker motors to a Bush Hog competition?

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jp88

01-25-2008 14:44:09

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Re: Cheaters in reply to Barnheater, 01-24-2008 15:59:53

Thats a big 10/4 on the bushhog competition.Farm stock isn't what it is called.Super Farm would be more appropriate for stroked versions.

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long hauler

01-23-2008 15:23:34

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Re: Cheaters in reply to George MacPherson, 01-23-2008 13:29:00

i agree with you george. in some clubs the cheaters are the ones making up the rules and inspecting the tractors.

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NATPA

01-24-2008 06:58:58

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Re: Cheaters in reply to long hauler, 01-23-2008 15:23:34

Like NATPA

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wah, wah

01-24-2008 09:05:26

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Re: Cheaters in reply to NATPA, 01-24-2008 06:58:58

wah, wah, wah

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cheater #1

01-24-2008 16:01:13

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Re: Cheaters in reply to wah, wah, 01-24-2008 09:05:26

Lets see new hobbies..... Golfing? NO!, bowling? how about Tennis any one ? No how about just plain crying wah! wah! wah! wah!..... . you pick your game I'm still going tractor pulling with all the rest of the fun cheaters!

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cheater #1

01-24-2008 16:00:19

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Re: Cheaters in reply to wah, wah, 01-24-2008 09:05:26

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cheater #1

01-24-2008 16:00:06

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Re: Cheaters in reply to wah, wah, 01-24-2008 09:05:26

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