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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

IT Manuals

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Roger

10-24-2003 07:02:09




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Farther down the page is a discussion about
manuals. I have dealt in tractor sales literature
and all sorts of manuals for 25 years. One of the
criticisms I have always heard is IT manuals are
not any good. If this is the case, then why do so
many Implement dealers use them? I can't remember
a dealer close out that didn't have lots more IT
manuals than regular OEM. I will agree the OEM
are better, but how many people really use any
manual to its full extent? I have an Oliver 99 &
Super 99 IT manual in front of me now. Paragraph
21 states - Sleeves should be replaced when the
following conditions exist. Taper 0.008. Out of
round 0.002. Wear 0.010. It goes on the tell how
to install the newer sleeves in an older motor. It
gives the dimensions for cutting a chamfer (.030
over .045 x 45 degrees) in the block. Paragraph
23. Newer style rods can be used in engines before
Serial No. 952651. Remove 1.304 from the upper end
on the front side of rods 2,4 & 6. Remove 1.304
from the upper end on the back side of rods 1,3 &
5. When I first started dealing in manuals and
literature a man told me an IT manual wasn't good
enough for the precise work he did. When I asked
him what the end play on the crankshaft of his WD
45 should be, he informed me it was not important. I opened the IT manual for a WD 45 and pointed
out it was important enough to be listed in the IT
manual. After 25 years of listening to people
trash IT manuals, I still have the same question.
How many people do this precise amount of work? I
often wonder how many people actually read the
manuals or for that matter work on their tractors.
Once again, the OEM manuals are better, but how
many of you have checked the end play in the
crankshaft or chamfered a block?

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JMS/MN

10-25-2003 01:00:14




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 Re: IT Manuals in reply to Roger, 10-24-2003 07:02:09  
I've always wondered, why are so many paragraphs missing? Maybe it's something I should know!



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Leroy

10-24-2003 17:24:17




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 Re: IT Manuals in reply to Roger, 10-24-2003 07:02:09  
Both are good, IT will some times have in what OEM will not and sometimes OEM will have what IT does not, also between either of older or newer versions of both IT or OEM there will be differences with both in both older and newer well worth having, take 4 different manuals for the same model and only one might have the paragraph in that you need.



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Chip

10-24-2003 15:03:26




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 Re: IT Manuals in reply to Roger, 10-24-2003 07:02:09  
Been wondering the same thing. All IT's I've used, the info & diagrams are taken from manufacturers info. I've even seen diagrams wrong, gone to the dealer & the pics & text match perfect, wrong for wrong. IT's were supposed to be a condensed version of factory for the knowledgable mechanic. Sometimes you'll need more info(theory of operation,ect., indepeth troubleshooting) especially on newer equip w/ advanced electronics & hyd,but alot of thats beyond the scope of this forum & the mech work alot of people will attempt. Personally I've no problem with IT's. That & sometimes a parts breakdown (some of it is in IT,s)and you're good to go.

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Mike (WA)

10-24-2003 08:33:00




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 Re: IT Manuals in reply to Roger, 10-24-2003 07:02:09  
I think a lot of the dissatisfaction with IT manuals is that they often assume more knowledge in the mechanic than many of us novices have. They also do not go as deeply into how a system works, which makes diagnosing problems more difficult. But they sure are a lot better than flying blind (and accidently removing an innocent looking bolt that used to have a check ball and spring behind it, before both went shooting off across the shop).

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DaveWis

10-24-2003 14:16:34




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 Re: Re: IT Manuals in reply to Mike (WA), 10-24-2003 08:33:00  
That is the point I was getting at in the post below. Most, if not all, of the novices, as you call them, only have 1 or 2 tractors and probably need and can justify the cost of OEM, in which case I recomend them. But those of us with years of experience and therefore with the basic mechanical knowledge, at least we should have it, can't justify the cost nor do we want to have to weed through it for the specs we need. I used to have parts manuals ( until I lost them in a fire) for a few of the models I worked on a lot and even that was almost too costly to justify.

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Buzzman72

10-24-2003 07:54:31




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 Re: IT Manuals in reply to Roger, 10-24-2003 07:02:09  
For 50 years, from 1941 to 1991, my dad and grand-dad ran a garage that majored in farm tractor repairs. Many of the overhauls they did in the 1960's are still out there running strong today. While they at one time had all the factory manuals for the Farmalls, for the other makes they kept a binder of the I&T manuals...which was pretty heavily used. The specs there were detailed enough to insure a fine engine job...PROVIDING YOU USED THEM. The main thing is, without the binder full of I&T manuals, there was NO WAY they were going to be able to work on ALL makes of tractors and still do a QUALITY job...without investing in a veritable LIBRARY of factory manuals. And if you only did one Oliver 88 or Case VAC or Allis WD a year, for example, the investment in a FACTORY manual was almost ridiculous, when the I&T manuals were decent enough without the "exclusive" manufacturer's inflated price.

So, to whoever's knocking the I&T manuals...if you worked on this stuff for a living, not for some absentee owner's reputation but for YOUR OWN, the I&T manuals were (are) a valuable resource; they ain't factory direct, but they're mighty good.

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George

10-28-2003 06:04:12




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 Re: Re: IT Manuals in reply to Buzzman72, 10-24-2003 07:54:31  
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate this thread. I just bought a MF 202 which needs work, but I already have too much in it, and $200 worth of manuals adds to the burden of replacement parts. The $23.00 for an IT sounds pretty good under the circumstances. Certainly a place to start...

Thanks again



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