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New tractor buyers

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Flurette Farm

12-16-2003 16:30:19

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You guys out there that are buying tractors need to buy a manual before you start asking all these questions that can sometimes be answered by just opening the operators manual. So do yourself and your unit a favor. They aren't expensive and they're easy to get. That way you can reserve questions you don't find answers for in the manuals for the vast cummulative knowledge found at this site.

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Dan

12-19-2003 07:35:35

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I have an original 1948 Ford 8N manual that I read from front cover to back. NO WHERE in that manual does it tell me about what other types of hydraulic oil can be used if your rear oil seals are not in the best shape and leaking slightly, heck, they didn't have additional oils except Mineral Oil when the manual was printed. NO WHERE in the manual does it talk about the marvels of J B Weld or Marvels Mystery Oil.... See what I mean? Very few things are as valuable than "real world" experience to us newbie tractor owners who were raised in the city all our lives. I greatly appreciate and value the advise I get on this forum from great people who share this experience.

Dan

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buickanddeere

12-18-2003 07:16:47

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Something else to explain the lack of interest in manuals is that a shocking percentage of the population 20+% is functionally illiterate. They can do little more than sign their name, read street signs and some newspaper headlines. Reading a manual is difficult or impossible and causes a great deal of frustration. Many of the questions here have some interesting spelling, grammar or where written by a spouse or child.

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DH in Carolina

12-17-2003 14:24:54

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

What if Flurette Farm went to the doctor with a problem and the doctor asks did you read your service manual?

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Jose

12-17-2003 14:01:50

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Sheesh, what a grouch! Did this take up too much of your precious time?

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Flurette Farm

12-17-2003 08:12:46

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

My suggestion was not meant to discourage anyone from asking questions or poke fun at those who do but, there are however a number of very good reasons that the manufacture provides an operators manual with new equipment, the primary one being safety. I'm very concerned that someone who doesn't understand what that lever does may remove his arm, leg, run over a child or himself. I stand by my original post in its entirety even though there are many different points of view and probably non-of them wrong. I have been at this for many years and think that your manuals (operators & service) are about as important as any tools you may have in you box. Thanks for the spirited feed back guys maybe some new buyers will read these comments and pick up something.....

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Cosmo

12-17-2003 15:22:53

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-17-2003 08:12:46

What the new buyers will pick up will probably be that there's lots of people who will help them in any way they can and a very, very few who are too important to be bothered with such insignificant folks as us and our trivial problems.

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Hi Ollie!

12-17-2003 09:35:27

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-17-2003 08:12:46

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rustyfarmall

12-17-2003 08:57:35

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-17-2003 08:12:46

The key words in your statement being "new equipment". A tractor built in 1940 did come with a manual, the original owner of that tractor read the manual very thoroughly. That was almost 64 years ago, the original manual was probably discarded at least 50 years ago. The person who purchases that 64 year old tractor today may not know that a manual ever existed. That's why we are here, to answer the questions before someone gets hurt.

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Garry

12-17-2003 07:52:50

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

"If everything else fails", read the instructions. You can get a lot more information on this board than in the manuals. A lot of things have changed for the better since many of these manuals were written. If you buy the operators, service, and part manuals you may get most of the answers, but not all. Besides, some of us can only answer the easier questions.

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Fred OH

12-17-2003 07:07:28

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Todays novices are tomorrows pros...todays kids are tomorrows leaders. If you put yourself in a tractor buyers shoes, some can pay cash, some can just barely beg, borrow or steal enough to get their first tractor home and they want to drive it asap. But, they have enough sense to ask a few questions first before they do. So, Mr. FF...are you in the manual selling business? And if so...do you have a manual for that? Fred OH

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buickanddeere

12-17-2003 07:48:25

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Fred OH, 12-17-2003 07:07:28

If someone if running an operation so close to the wire they can't afford a manual for a "new" piece of equipment they are in over their heads. Most people can afford a manual, torque wrench etc with a few weeks of beer, rye, and satellite TV, pizza & cigarette money. It's a matter of priorities.

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Chris-se-ILL

12-17-2003 06:37:15

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I have been at this site for only about 6 months (a friend on another forum refered me to YT when I asked a question about an Oliver). I am an automotive and diesel mechanic (among many other skills) and I own about 7 tractors (all red, all sizes), but I did not have a manual for this tractor because it was my neighbor's. I asked my question and several folks tried to help me out. A couple of nice folks also refered me to the "Archive Search." I found that a former post (about 1 year old) had covered in detail what I was looking for. I made a few mistakes trying what the old post had described (the original question was about adding an auxiliary hydraulic assembly). I brought a few more questions back to the forum and they were answered. I finally got the Oliver working the way it should. I appreciate all the folks that try to answer a question, without offering an attitude. I have found both here, but I find more helpful and knowledgable people here, instead of the smart-aleck ones. That is why I keep coming back! I have left several "farm forum" sites that have had smart-alecks running good folks off. I pray that that never happens here.

There are no dumb questions, some I find tiring after reading them for the fouth time, but the person that asks them may be new to this site {as we all were at some point} and may not know that there is even an Archive feature. I prefer to see a question asked 10 times, as to seeing a person ridiculed for asking it in the first place.

I have found that if I read the first post of a thread and am not interested... I skip the entire thread. There are many threads that I find uninteresting. But... the topic must have interested someone because it gets asked and answered. If it irritates ya, just skip it!

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tlak

12-17-2003 05:03:37

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Pass it if it bothers you. The post I thought was petty was where the person just came on to reply that the person spelled bailer wrong. Couldnt answer the question but could point out how to spell baler.

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Nolan

12-17-2003 03:44:32

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Funny thing I've noticed, I don't have to answer every question that I see. I can even skip over posts if I want to.

It's sure tempting to ask you if you've read your computers operating manual to see how that's done, but that'd be awfull petty of me. :-)

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kyhayman

12-17-2003 03:50:35

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Nolan, 12-17-2003 03:44:32

Excellent reply!! Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Larry NE IL

12-16-2003 21:06:12

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again: there is no such thing as a dumb question, just dumb answers!
Keep on swimming! Larry

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CRUSADER

12-17-2003 11:51:40

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Larry NE IL, 12-16-2003 21:06:12

Well said Kevin,

I have always heard it said: "The only dumb questions are the questions that are not asked." These are the ones where someone will usually get hurt.

later days mate,
Jim

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Deas Plant.

12-17-2003 05:35:32

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Larry NE IL, 12-16-2003 21:06:12

Hi, Larry. For mine the only dumb question is the one that is NOT asked. If the person genuinely doesn't know and thinks it important or is simply curious, the question is worth asking.

I agree totally with you about the dumb answers though.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Alberta Mike

12-16-2003 20:33:26

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I don't know about Fleuret Farms but as for myself, I've learned 100 X's as much here on the forums than I ever did from any manual. Can you imagine how big and detailed a manual would have to be to even come close to the knowledge that guys give out here?

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RAB

12-16-2003 23:28:23

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Alberta Mike, 12-16-2003 20:33:26

We maybe need to remember that ALL this detail is stored in the archives and often easily accessible, at least for the standard (eg 'what oil?') questions. The new users may not be aware of this stored wealth of information or how to use the site more effectively. Regards, RAB

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Brian

12-16-2003 20:16:50

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

If you are so busy and don't want to be pestered I'd suggest getting back to work and just ignore us.

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12-16-2003 20:13:04

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

If you don't want to read and try to answer someone's question,what are you doing on this site.That's what this forum is all about.

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paul

12-16-2003 20:12:26

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I secretly agree with you, but wouldn't say so out in the open. :)

I enjoy helping people, not that I'm good at it. But try to help in my dumb way.

Sometimes you see the same question 3 times on the same page - just plain dumb luck timing, going to get a pretty short answer if you happen to be the 3rd person asking. :) Hope people don't mind being told to search the archives a bit - I can remember a very good reply, much better than I could write, and so hate to bother writing something inferior to previous advise already here. I can't count the times I've explained what 'live pto' means - it's not a dumb question to ask, but been covered about 200 times already. This year! You know what I mean? :)

I'm really attracted to a good subject line that tells me what the question is about, lowercase typing, and people who follow up on their questions. And new qustions not seen in the past 2 months.

Doesn't bother me if they misspell 1/2 their words (except 'baler', that one is bamboo shoots under my nails....) or if they don't supply enough info at first, or really don't even know the info they have to know to even ask the question they are trying to ask. Just as long as they come back & tell us more - a good questioner. :)

Oil types, asking what this standard lever does (HOW many times will someone ask what the postion/control lever is for on a Ford?????), or a question that was just asked within the last 2 days does grind a little. One really should have an operators manual for their tractor to identify the levers & oil types for climate and such.

I guess the saw goes both ways tho.

--->Paul

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Cliff Todd

12-16-2003 20:11:59

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Keep the questions coming. There is nothing wrong with any kind of tractor question on this board as far as most of us are concerned. This is a place of vast knowledge and many of us older folks, like to read the post from folks who are buying a first tractor. Maybe it will remind of us of the first 8N we drove some 45 years ago. Or even the favorite Ford Jubilee or John Deere B we have owned.

I will agree a tractor manual on your tractor is a great place to learn about a tractor. However most farmers are more than happy to help a new owner out. Maybe even offer some operator tips and some areas to watch for on your tractor.

Scrooge is only one part of Christmas :>) Most of us still believe in Santa and sharing information. Matter of fact we enjoy sharing our experience.

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Bob

12-16-2003 20:07:14

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Smart A$$!

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tex

12-16-2003 20:06:46

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Flurette, was there a certain post that upset you?

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OK-AL

12-16-2003 19:51:20

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

When I purchased my first tractor (8N Ford) I figured that it was so old that there wouldn't be any manuals available. Of course, I was wrong, but the guys on the N board were great.

Just because somebody doesn't have a manual shouldn't mean that he (or she!) shouldn't be able to ask a question.

Remember, there's no dumb questions and there's nothing wrong with being ignorant as long as you're trying to improve yourself.

Everyone, keep up the good work!

OK-AL

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RAB

12-17-2003 12:25:21

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to OK-AL, 12-16-2003 19:51:20

And, dare I say, one of the most important things they told you on the forum was that manuals were available, and presumably you took their advice and made a purchase of same?
Regards, RAB

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buck

12-16-2003 19:38:06

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Your boasting of book earned knowledge reminds me of a day long ago when I went to a parts place to get parts for my first tractor. Ask for parts and a few general guestions on the side when he guy offered that I should leave the old tractors alone since I didn't know much about them. Bill came to around 100 dollars and as I presented him the money I made the comment that we all begin in the 1st grade, returned the money to my wallet and walked out. Sad day when we put restrictions on the knowledge and skills we have.

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Will- Mn.

12-17-2003 05:55:53

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to buck, 12-16-2003 19:38:06

Buck,

Good one! too funny! i have done the same,but you sir have more "flair" you showed em the money then put it back! i usually just walk out,next time i'll show em da money,but i have walked out very rarely,most dealerships are hepful,auto parts stores are of a different story.

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Kelly C

12-17-2003 11:17:38

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Re: Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Will- Mn., 12-17-2003 05:55:53

I havent had any problems at my NH/Case IH dealer.
He has had me behind the counter looking at his computer parts list answered all my stupid questions. Gave me examples of how to install the parts. He even sent me to a used dealer to save a few bucks.
This is one of the shops that get it. I may not be one of the big guys coming in to make a deal on $100,000 rig or even buying big buck parts.
But I am a bread and butter guy. If he helps me his bread gets buttered till the next mooch comes in for a big rig.

I think the 1st part I purchased from them was like $6 or somthing like that. He took his time and made sure I got what I needed and knew what to do with it.
Now if he would have treated me like crap. I might or might not have spent the 6 bucks. But I know I would not have went back.

I think in the last year I have spent about $1300 at that dealer for Baler parts and tractor parts.
He also told me that for some reason they had a huge amount of people calling from different states to order NH baler knotters. He said they sold about $15,000 worth of them. seen nothing like it.
Hmmm wonder how that happened?
Karma's a strange thing. If you pass some good some good comes back. You tell some one to go RTFM!!! SOme day you wont be able to find yours and you will have to ask. SOme ones sure to tell you to go RTFM!!!

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Willy-N

12-16-2003 19:22:34

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

When I got my first tractor it was broke had a rod thru the side of the engine. I had to ask a few dumb questions like setting the valves and proper tork for the head bolts cause I did not have my manuals yet. I wanted to use my tractor and could not wait any longer just staring at it so I rebuilt the engine tuned it up and graded the drive way. One day my manuals findly came and they are still clean need a set for a Ferguson TO tractor?? In fact I got 4 of them now and no longer have that tractor. Funny part is I did not realy need them after I fixed it cause it never broke again while I owned it. Mark H.

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jocco

12-16-2003 18:45:50

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

i agree with flurette some or this is ridiculose

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This one knows

12-16-2003 18:53:04

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to jocco, 12-16-2003 18:45:50

the answeres-if only he could spell it so you could understand

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redding iz fundy mental

12-16-2003 19:21:02

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Re: Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to This one knows, 12-16-2003 18:53:04

Hey! He probably learned that lesson when he was too cheap to pop for his Weekly Reader!

Keep the questions coming and the answers too!

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JMS/MN

12-16-2003 18:17:05

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

AMEN to that!!! I think most posters on this site are newbies or parttimers, and I can't understand how they can spend a few grand on a tractor and won't spend 15 bucks on the most basic book that tells them where the controls are, what oil they need according to ambient temps, service intervals, basic maintenance, etc. I've been criticized as recently as last week for my usual response to the "what oil do I need" question----- GET THE OP/OWNER MANUAL. Frankly, they are lucky that those of us who grew up with these tractors, and have farmed full-time for a lifetime are willing to remind (waste our time) them, of the basics. In the future the answer to a similar post is likely to be this: Tractor-$1500, Manual-$15. Knowledge regarding operation, maintenance, oils-PRICELESS! They get manuals with their cars, computers, telephones, apoliances, etc., but are too cheap to get one for a tractor they know nothing about? Wannabe farmers are SO non-impressive!

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Aaron

12-16-2003 17:36:31

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

I personally don't mind giving someone a hand with a simple question. In fact, I rather enjoy it. I'll always do my best to help them even if they don't have the manual. I just hope they will enjoy classic tractors as much as I.

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Kenny

12-16-2003 18:36:52

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Aaron, 12-16-2003 17:36:31

Whhoooaaaa !!!!!
Flurette Farm JMS/MN Don't YOU ALL have the Christmas Sprit!!!!
If it's that big of a bother to you, would it be to much to just ignore it. I like Aaron and I'm sure several others enjoy answering and helping other folks out. The beginner is on a learning curve and the older we get we just forget. The PRO's got the knowledge & some of us just want a quick answer.
Merry Christmas to all & Happy New Year

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david

12-16-2003 18:53:55

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Re: Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Kenny, 12-16-2003 18:36:52

Well said! I've noticed a definite turn to many posts of late that look more like flame wars than folks wanting to share their ideas and experiences. Many of us depend on these newbies and part-timers to bring in their 'new' money to a tight traditional farm economy.

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DUH

12-16-2003 16:47:00

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Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Flurette Farm, 12-16-2003 16:30:19

Tell us something we don't already know.

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AZ Jack

12-16-2003 18:50:39

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Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to DUH, 12-16-2003 16:47:00

Hells bells-if my time and knowledge were that important I wouldn't waste it trying to preach a sermon on buying manuals. If you don't want to waste time to answer-then don't. Go on to something bigger and better.

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Pitch

12-17-2003 03:01:42

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Re: Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to AZ Jack, 12-16-2003 18:50:39

I have the manuals and I ask and answer questions. As for searching the archives I will never tell someone to do that just because of the sheer volume of information contained in them. Kind of like typing dog into google and expecting to find the information you need in a coupla minutes. If your time is so aluble why are you even on wasting it this board? I enjoy reading and talking old tractors and equipment. If a post looks boring I skip it, you should do the same.

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Phil in MS

12-17-2003 05:38:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: New tractor buyers in reply to Pitch, 12-17-2003 03:01:42

Another side to this debate could be that a newby is just that, new! Outside of the operator's manual that I got when I purchased the tractor in 1976 I didn't know that a parts and shop manual were even available until I started lurking around this site. I purchased a knock off parts manual first and then purchased a dealer shop manual. I liked it so well I went back to the dealer for a "real" parts manual. I am not a mechanic but I haven't been sorry one time about the manual purcahse. Oh by the way I just purchased these manuals in the last year. If I ever consider selling my tractor I would hope it will sell a little easier because I have all the manuals to go with it. Yes you can and should buy the manuals but until you learn the manuals exist and are available you ask questions.

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