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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel Fuel Conditioner

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D

04-12-2004 19:51:56




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How long is diesel conditioner good for? Neighbour's son works for Ontario Hydro, they're throwing out truckloads of diesel conditioner still in the original case because it's been on their inventory too long and they have to move it or it'll screw up their numbers come budget time. Mostly seems to be 3-4 years old. Also have welders working triple time on Saturdays cutting up $10 million worth of new channel iron into 10' lengths to sell for scrap so they can justify buying more.

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jim

04-13-2004 18:03:17




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
Diesel fuel additives are good for older diesel engines only. The new engines use ceramic injectors, these additives have abrasives in them that will erode your injectors. I have a 7.3PS and never use any additives, and it gets cold around here. Never had a problem with it gelling up. My .02 worth.



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buickanddeere

04-13-2004 05:55:57




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
What site is this steel cutting occuring at? I can do a little snooping and maybe find out what is going on. Somebody maybe getting some cash on the side?



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D

04-13-2004 08:24:35




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 Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to buickanddeere, 04-13-2004 05:55:57  
It's at Darlington, nothing underhanded about it, the bosses are the ones running the show. Just like everything else at Ontario Hydro, every decision is made by how much more money they can spend. Anytime a welder has to go out to a site he takes a 50lb box of rods and when the job's done, the supervisor sends the rest of the box home with somebody because they can't be bothered taking a part box back to the shop. The machinists sit around all week then get called in on Saturday at 2 or 3 time to do a job they knew about all week .

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charles gabourie

04-13-2004 08:48:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-13-2004 08:24:35  
your are so right about ont. hydro. you. you say it is darlington well i can look out my window and see it --- only in ont. ca charles gabourie



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buickanddeere

04-13-2004 12:21:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to charles gabourie , 04-13-2004 08:48:33  
Lets not forget a few fundamental factors here but you mind may well be made up and won’t be changed. There is a pile of hatred from the general public working on average $15.00/hr and knowing that highly skilled and qualified staff at a nuclear facility are making much more. On numerous occasions it's cheaper to scrap stock that doesn't meet nuclear specs then send it back to the suppliers. Do you want just any old valve or piece of steel in the nuclear reactor near you? As for welding rod etc it costs more to hire extra stock keepers to return materials of questionable quality back to stores. Everything has to be double checked for contamination. Then reams of documenting paperwork for each item. You can't expect the plants to keep ISO level of standards and not have the supporting documents/proof. Come on, $10 million in steel? There are steel mills that don't have that much in their entire inventory. Darlington hasn’t had any large construction jobs going since the late 80’s. Short pieces and odds/sods are cut up and scraped. This isn't a farm where two or three short pieces are cobbled together to do a job. Do you want extra welded joints or take short cuts in a 1600psi 600F heavy water heat transport header? Or if the metal is rust pitted, it’s gotta go. If you want power during the week when demand is highest, don't gripe about maintence work being performed on weekends. You just can't walk up to a 1.3 million HP reactor, hit the off switch, do an hours work, then hit the on switch. Outages take hundreds of hours of planning to maintain redundant power supplies, cooling systems, access control to normally non accessible areas while on power. And the list goes on from planning of parts, procedures and juggling multiple work groups whose work has to done in a particular order or share a common work area. And yes as in all large companies, armed forces and government there is waste. Why do you think it's different there than anywhere else? If you want to see a sharp Nuclear operation, have a look at how Duncan Hawthorn has brought two 850 MW Bruce A units back for 600 million and on time. Compared to the American buffoons who spent 2.5 billion to restore one small 540 MW Pickering unit three years late. Then walked off with 40 million in their pockets for just four people. Pretty handy too, for the coal plants in New York, Michigan and Ohio to sell us power at peak rates. After the same American consultants insisted we shut down enough Ontario nuclear base load units to equal the amount of power there was available to purchase from the US.

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BobMo

04-13-2004 05:28:27




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
I really doubt that cutting up the channel to justify buying more is the reason for doing it. It's probably material that was over bought or doesn't meet specification requirements and this is a CYA move on someones part. Also if it doesn't meet spec this will prevent it from being used by their own people at that facility. Cutting it up to justify buying more is the typical type of rumor that goes around these facitilies among yard hands..... .....

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charles gabourie

04-13-2004 08:23:45




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 Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to BobMo, 04-13-2004 05:28:27  

d--- i will bet that you do not live in ontario because that is how ontario hydro is run very bad and we are paying for it. take care charles gabourie



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Nor. Al

04-13-2004 03:51:14




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
I would not be afraid to use the conditioner as long as it has the air tight seal on it. I buy a half gallon container and mix it into 200 gallons of diesel fuel. A man that cleaned my fuel injectors advised me to do this , also advised to run engine every 2 or 3 weeks for a few minutes in the off-season. Whether he is right or wrong I do it as I feel he knows more about it than I do.



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Sid

04-12-2004 20:05:16




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
I do not know how long the conditioner is good for. The idea of all that new channel iron being cut up for scrap just to justify the added purchase really took some thinking to come up with that plan. What will it cost to replace it twenty million?



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Ray,IN

04-12-2004 20:03:12




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 Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to D, 04-12-2004 19:51:56  
Unopened containers that have been protected from the elements, including light and temperature extremes, will safely store the product much longer than that sitting on display shelves individually. I would feel safe using this product. The bottom line is this: The use of clean fresh diesel fuel from a quality source eliminates the need for any additives. Cummins engine co. specificly states "the use of additives is NOT recommended."

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txblu

04-13-2004 05:26:49




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 Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to Ray,IN, 04-12-2004 20:03:12  
I constantly fight the answer to this question to do, or not to do. My feelings on OEM recommendations about not adding things to fuel is that they (OEM's)don't take the time (and $) to research "off the shelf" additives and the impact they have on their products. Therefore they just put out a blanket statement don't do anything.

I can't prove either case. It's kind of a mood thing. Sometimes I feel I need to, other times I don't.

The only thing I can really attest to is synthetic oil. I unoquivocally (sp) can attest that adding synthetic oil to your crankcase and automatic transmission makes a difference. The stuff is slicker and more stable (less viscosity change) than parafin based oils period. The engine noises that disappear, heater taking longer to get hot in the morning, and shift pattern changes and smoothness (especially in really cold mornings) are without a doubt attributable to adding some (Mobil 1, Mobil 1 ATF) to the oil changes.

txblu

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Ray,In

04-13-2004 20:11:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to txblu, 04-13-2004 05:26:49  
tsblu, If you want to bone up on synthetic oils read this. The author has posted links to websites that document his writings.



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txblu

04-14-2004 05:41:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to Ray,In, 04-13-2004 20:11:31  
Thanks, I will.



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7.3 PSD ?

04-13-2004 05:57:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to txblu, 04-13-2004 05:26:49  
Hold 15 qts. Are you saying add a qt. of SYN to it every oil change? AND- does Mobil SYN come in a 15-40 wgt.? Thanks-



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49 Cubber!

04-13-2004 16:31:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to 7.3 PSD ?, 04-13-2004 05:57:46  
Mine holds 16.No extra filtration system or anything.It takes 16 quarts to get it to the full mark. I run Rotella 5-40 year round.Ive been thinking about changing to the Mobil though.



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txblu

04-13-2004 09:32:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to 7.3 PSD ?, 04-13-2004 05:57:46  
I usually add a couple of quarts (engine oil) to everything, every oil change. In the hwy veh it's 2ea 15w-50 Mobil 1 (the one with the red tag, may be 20W-50) with 4 ea 15W-40 Mobil Delvac and in the tractors it is at least 2 qts.syn. Yes it is too expensive for me to go full syn. You could buy blended I guess, but you don't know the blend ration.

On the ATF I have a suck gun and every time I change engine oil, I suck out about 2 qts of ATF and replace it with syn. That way I don't have to go the sloppy job of draining the tx pan.

By using a blend, I figure I am covered both ways incase one type oil doesn't do something the engine needs.

In aircooled lawnmowers, I use straight 15-40 syn. Have one riding mower 5 yrs old mows 3 ac 2x per week and peeking thru the sparkplug hole you can still see the factory cross hatch on the cyl walls.

txblu

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Tom

04-13-2004 06:27:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to 7.3 PSD ?, 04-13-2004 05:57:46  
Mobil makes a syn oil especially for diesel engines. It is Mobil Delvac One 5W40. I buy in cases of 4 each one gallon bottles from the mobil distributor. You can also get it at Petro truck stops but that is at retail prices. This is what most independent long haul truckers use if they own and are financially responsible for all engine repair and maintenance costs out of ther own pocket.



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VADAVE

04-13-2004 05:55:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to txblu, 04-13-2004 05:26:49  
I agree with you. I can't tell you how much I have spent fighting algee in the fuel. Now I add some KILLUM and the equipment continues to run without constant filter changes. Oh there is another solution--leave no fuel in the tank and only purchase what you will use at any one time.
I didn't know you could mix synthetic and regular oil.



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jed

04-13-2004 09:23:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Diesel Fuel Conditioner in reply to VADAVE, 04-13-2004 05:55:19  
If you have biological growths in your tank, you have a water problem. If the lid is on your tank, then the last time you bought fuel they brought it to you. Bacterial growth can't occur without a water layer. Synthetic oil is ,simply put, a molecularly rearranged petroleum based oil. They mix well.



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