O.T. Calling all Powerstroke owners with ZF 6 spd

Of course, in order to get a decent AT that means the Allison and a Duramax... maybe it's a Ford vs. Chevy thing.

I've spoken to several PS owners while fueling at truck stops and most that are pulling heavy goosenecks are saying that the autos require overhauls in less than 200K miles. Thats not to say that my next truck won't have an auto. Now if Allison would build a 6 speed auto....

Ford now has a 5R110W which is rated at 1100 ft.lbs. but it is the first offering so we will have to see what happens. Some of the earlier E4OD and 4R100 automatics with a converter clutch in the diesel applications got the converter cover so hot that it turned blue. That's hot and really working the lockup damper to maximum!

Don't know about the Zed F manual stuff.

The secondary reason is that AT's also have torque converters which at least double the available torque from a standing start... perfect for towing.

Your point about large trucks might have been true 20-30 years ago but today AT's are even used in off-highway construction equipment. Allison makes them and they are rated for over 4,000 lb. ft. of torque!

Automatics far, far, far and away outperform standard transmissions/clutch set ups for light-duty over the road applications.

Allan

At 90,000 miles the auto went out, big bucks for a rebuild, as i couldn't do it my self!!!

At 180,000 miles i replaced the clutch on the manual tranny pu, and it still wasn't slipping or acting up. I replaced it because i was going to pull a big load 4,500 miles over the ALCAN hiway, and didn't want to take a chance on haveing a problem on that road. Best part is, i did it my self, and it wasn't all that expensive. This pu now has 199,200 miles on it, and the tranny is still origional. Infact, i just got back from pulling a load with it, 800 miles.

BTW, the auto has a big Haden tranny oil cooler, and was kept serviced!!!

Two weeks ago my Caprice Classics auto tranny started slipping. It also has a tranny cooler, and also has been kept serviced. It has 158,000 miles on it. It's never been abused or pulled any kind of a load!

Learn how to use, instead of "abuse" a clutch, and it will easily out last an auto tranny!!

Robert

Fords test for a bad/good clutch is to cholk the wheels, put in 4th gear (Fords 4th gear, 5th gear to the real world), let clutch out at idle:

If the the engine dies the clutch is good.

If the engine stays running the clutch is bad.

Ford has a known problem with early 2001 and before clutch disc (bad springs) and the pilot bushing. 99 had the bad clutch fork.

Late 2001 and on Ford chaged the clutch disc and so far I haven"t read of any early failures. Mine only has 16k miles so it"s too early.

I would do some research as the last time I checked (last year) SouthBend Clutch was a higher rated clutch than the LUK.

The SouthBend was rated close too 1000ft/lbs of torque in normal use. It was built on the paddle design like the clutch used in the semi"s. Serval options available.

I stumbled onto another website (sorry no bookmark) that RockFord ? Rockwell? that claimed a very high torque rating, exceed the SouthBend torque rating. Website had to do with the Eaton gear box add on units, and listed one for the Ford 7.3 PSD.

T_Bone

I think you said you quit driving your truck until it can be checked. Thats a real good idea as some of the guys are having the input shaft wiped out from the springs coming out of the disc and also takes out the pilot bushing. That seams to happen even if you catch it early.

Goto thedieselstop.com and do a search for user named Pat Dolan and read up on his clutch problems. He"s a commerical carrier with a F550 and has lost 3 or 4 clutchs. I think he gave up on the LUK clutch as it didn"t prove strong enough. I think his currnt clutch is a SB.

Rumor has it that LUK built the clutch for the late 2001 and up for Fords. I don"t know what build date they started with. I don"t think the exact month was known. It seams like it was June 01 as my 02 build date was 8/01 and it already had the updated clutch.

You might also see if the is a TSB or Oassis notice for the clutch. I haven"t seen one but I haven"t been keeping up with them like I need too. My bookmarks got a worm and I had to delete them and lost a ton of info.

T_Bone

• ford-truck.com

I was a service manager at a Ford dealership for 4 years and can tell you that Ford is nortorious for two things: Bad electric fuel pumps and bad clutches.

However, are you really sure it is slipping? Are you sure you aren't just hearing that fan clutch coming in and out?

Never heard of one actually "slipping" before and anyway, this would leave you walking in a very short order if it was actually slipping. You would "smell" it too.

Usually, their clutches either pull or they don't and the problem usually lies in the hydraulic release/apply of the things.

They have some problems with the dual mass flywheels, but these are, again, usually balance related.

Allan

It's definitely slipping. If I wanted to I could redline the engine speed by applying a little throttle--doesn't have to be coming up a hill. I barely made it home last night on the flatlands of the FL panhandle. Leaving a light, I had to go real easy on the throttle to prevent slippage. Even starting out in low, it will slip if I don't go real slow. Can't smell any burning though. This weekend I'll pull the cover off to see if there's any evidence of damage. I know what you mean about the fan roar--heard that coming down I-81 in the mountains. First time I heard it I thought it was the clutch but noticed right away that engine speed and road speed hadn't changed.

At about 40K miles I had to change the clutch cylinder assembly. Truck left me high and dry in Mississippi--pedal on the floor, no clutch release.

I mentioned my suspicions of clutch slippage to the dealer at about 30,000 miles but they said it wasn't slipping. Without having the trailer at the time, I couldn't demonstrate that it was a problem.

On the dual mass flywheel issue, I've been told by several folks that these were dropped by Ford well before 2001--I think in '99 or early 2000 or so. Also this truck was ordered in late 2001.

Since you worked for Ford can you tell me if the clutch is included in the powertrain warranty? I pretty much figured they won't back this up and I'll be buying and installing a LUK kit or something else if there's anything better out there.

I wouldn't go to the bother of pulling the inspection cover; doubt if you could see any evidence anyway.

From what you say, it sounds as though that truck needs to come down. If you were concerned about getting home last night, then it is probably on it's last leg for sure; something is definitely wrong.

About the warranty; I’ll try to give you some idea of how Ford thinks (this is from my experience) and this is all going to come down to how well you get along with that dealer.

Clutches and brakes are a touchy issue with any manufacturer, as they are a "wearable" & oftentimes an “abused” item. I. E. That gooseneck trailer you have hooked to the back of your truck. :>)

Clutches are warranted for the first 12,000 miles; most dealers will cover to 36K just to keep the customer happy. So legally, Ford really does not have to warranty that clutch.

However, on a diesel, the flywheel is considered part of the engine and it is warranted to 100K if it fails.

So, if that service manager has his hat on right, he will write the service order up in such a way that the flywheel is showing as the "failing" part & the rest of the clutch parts are failing incidental to that original 'failing' part. It could conceivably be done. (Do you notice that I’m trying to be somewhat ‘careful’ here?) :>)

Another point in your favor: Ford does not want to lose you as a repeat customer. It has been my experience that Ford will bend over backwards to get along with you, keep you happy and keep you coming back for your next vehicle purchases.

Now on the other hand, if you should go to after market parts for anything (repeat, ANYTHING); you've just written your own set of divorce papers; from that point on, you are outside the loop as far as Ford sees it and you are totally on your own.

For instance, Ford doesn't feel that they should warranty the left front brake caliper if you are pushing it via an after market fuel chip. This wasn't the way it was originally designed, and they want no part of it. What they are saying in effect, is that they do not warranty their product with someone else’s spoon stirring the soup.

If I were you, and if you have less than 100K miles on your truck, I would go have a cup of coffee and a heart to heart talk with your dealer; because I’m bettin’ he will take care of you.

Hope this helps and sure hope you get 'er going ‘cause you have tractors to haul!

Allan

Not a problem..... just find me a clean IH 966 without a cab..... okay? :>)

Later

I've had 4 go out thru the years on these but mine is always the pressure plate that gives up.