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Hwy Diesel

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Northwest dude

03-03-2005 21:42:43




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What is the differance bettween Hwy diesel and farm grade diesel. Is it a bad idea to burn hwy diesel in a farm tractor?




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Bus Driver

03-05-2005 10:09:16




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
Local well driller has 5 big rigs- latest design probably. Big Cummins runs the rig on the road and also powers the air compressor which runs the drill rig. He has two fuel tanks on the rig, one for the tax-paid road fuel and one for the dyed, non-taxed. They drill with the dyed fuel. A manual valve selects the tank used.



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NEsota

03-05-2005 09:40:19




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
I do not remember which state it was but someone said the law there had exhust emissions test equipment which indicated if hi or low sulphur fuel was being used.



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T_Bone

03-05-2005 10:32:10




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to NEsota, 03-05-2005 09:40:19  
hi NEsota,

In Phoenix, Az you will see exhaust gas aynalizers on-ramps to the Interstate. They test your exhaust as you drive by and if out of spec, takes a picture of your rear liscense plate and sends you a ticket thru the mail with demands that you report to a State testing facility.

They also issue speeding and red lite tickets via cammera in several areas. Here they take a picture of front and rear and drivers face has to match DL, if not they won't issue the ticket.

It's not as easy to fool as you think as they've matched people with fake mustachs with sun glasses.

DUI next???

T_Bone

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John A.

03-04-2005 20:42:43




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
NW. Dude, The BASIC answer to your question ....."Red Dye # 2". Offroad DSL is dyed red, and Road Dsl is undyed (clear to anber).
There is #1 and #2 grades of DSL but that has no bearin on your question. Hope this helps!
Later,
John A.



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paul

03-04-2005 13:41:30




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
There are different grades of diesel fuel.

#2 is good for summer temps & oil furnaces; it is cheaper & will start to form gel crystals below 20 degrees that plug up filters & fuel lines.

#1 is a thinner, less BTU, more expensive fuel. It flows at very cold temperatures. You can order this & blend it with your summer #2 fuel for the temps you plan to encounter, or burn it straight.

There are blends sold, to accomidate different temperatures. Commonally called 'winter blend'.

There are premium fuels that are made of #2 & #1 that have lubricating additives & cleaners to possibly work better in your internal combustion diesel engines. These cost more.

Typically, 'road fuel' has a hyway tax applied to it from both the fed & state governments.

'Offroad fuel' is dyed a deep reddish color and does not have this tax applied to it. Can be 20 to 40 cents a gallon difference.

Either type of fuel can be burned in engines or oil furnaces, and can be made of any combination of #2, #1, and/or additives. Many people associate some terms with each other here, but that is never univerally true. Every region has it's own common blends of fuels - all made of #2 with perhaps some #1 added. It is possible to order some very thick unrefined types of diesel fuel up to grade #6, but that is not typically available or good for the engines & furnaces you & I come across.

If you run dyed off-road fuel in a highway vehicle, be prepared to pay some heafty fines. They get serious about that.

--->Paul

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JoeMN

03-04-2005 14:11:23




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to paul, 03-04-2005 13:41:30  
Paul,you are correct,they are serious. I stopped at a remote rural intersection of county roads recently. A Mn hwy patrol vehicle was parked there and the trooper jumped out to stick my pickup's fuel tank. He explained that they don't need"probable cause" to stop and inspect me since it's not criminal or a traffic violation,it's a tax collection matter. Refusal to allow sticking tank would be the same fine as running untaxed fuel- in excess of $1000.00.

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Kevin Bismark

03-04-2005 16:36:09




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to JoeMN, 03-04-2005 14:11:23  
Yup, had the gastapo dip my tanks last fall twice in the same day, just a little private pickup, but they are so over funded in Minnesota that they have nothing else to do, the guy picked this dipping deal off the floor of his trunk, didn't look too clean and he didn't appear to know much about what he was doing other than to look at the color, but they "the state" are not responsible for damage done to your engine from water and dirt on the dip tube, We need budget cuts here.....

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JMS/MN

03-04-2005 14:37:08




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to JoeMN, 03-04-2005 14:11:23  
They have been known to hang around auction barns, like the one at Albany, etc. They check tanks in the farmer's trucks to see if they are running colored or clear. Fines are about a year's worth of mileage, colored vs clear.



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buickanddeere

03-04-2005 09:59:21




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
I started burning low sulphur diesel from the 1st place it could be bought from. It was road taxed but it really doesn't matter. I used to get wheezed up from the stink of high sulphur diesel and the exhaust odor.



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jddriver

03-04-2005 17:23:22




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 soy diesel in reply to buickanddeere, 03-04-2005 09:59:21  
B&D have you tried any of the soydiesel ?We have been burning now for over a year,really cleaned up the stack and nave noticed any performance issues.The 1940#12 cat grader even started missing on #3 less.Steve



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buickanddeere

03-04-2005 18:10:00




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 Re: soy diesel in reply to jddriver, 03-04-2005 17:23:22  
At the dry fuel storage building at Pickering one of the operators has a chip on his shoulder. He started whining about "safety" and diesel fumes in a 30 ft tall warehouse. The place is just a rain and snow shelter with screened air inlets/outlets on the walls,eves and peak. It's as airtight as an umbrella. I just happened to overhear the situation and suggested using low sulphur diesel or soydiesel. They now use low sulphur in winter and soy in summer and the place doesn't stink. The operator is complaining now the smell of soy has made him hungry for fries and has caused him to gain weight. The custom built fuel flask carrier cost some 13 million and is an engineer's wet dream with every gadget known to technical types who live behind a desk. They found out on the 1st winter day they should have sprung for a $39.99 engine block heater as well.

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farmallman

03-04-2005 07:18:52




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
I know where i live, people pay tax on hwy diesal and not on farm diesal. Farm diesal is lso dyed red so that if people drive a transport tractor and get pulled over and the officer checks diesal and see that it is red, the driver can get charged



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jdemaris

03-04-2005 05:39:17




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
As New-Gen posted, the lubricosity is the issue. Low-sulfur fuel has much of it removed, so the off-road diesel or heating oil is better - at least for diesels with distributor pumps. As I was told by various people in the fuel injection field, in-line injection pumps don't seem to have the problems with low-lubricosity wear from highway fuel as do the distributor pumps (like Standyne-Roosmaster and most CAVs). Standadyne offers special internal parts for their pumps intended to be more durable in low-lube environments. They label them as "artic", I assume because fuel is mixed very heavy with kerosene in very cold places.

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New-Gen

03-04-2005 05:01:41




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
Let me tell you my experience.
I was working on a farm a few miles away and my transfer tank was empty, so I filled up my 4020 John Deere at the local truckstop at noon. As the afternoon went on the 4020 started running bad....the governor wasn't acting right, it kept getting worse and worse..
I had just had the injection pump rebuilt, so I called the place that had done it...the first thing they asked was if I had been using low sulphur fuel....I told them what I had done and they told before I pulled the pump off to try putting some sulphur additive in the tank...I poured in a GENEROUS dose, started the tractor up, and it was running like a champ before I got it backed out of the toolshed.
The low sulphur fuel doesn't have enough lubricity for the old systems!
NG

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New-Gen

03-04-2005 04:56:29




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
Let me tell you my experience.
I was working on a farm a few miles away and my transfer tank was empty, so I filled up my 4020 John Deere at the local truckstop at noon. As the afternoon went on the 4020 started running bad....the governor wasn't acting right, it kept getting worse and worse..
I had just had the injection pump rebuilt, so I called the place that had done it...the first thing they asked was if I had been using low sulphur fuel....I told them what I had done and they told before I pulled the pump off to try putting some sulphur additive in the tank...I poured in a GENEROUS dose, started the tractor up, and it was running like a champ before I got it backed out of the toolshed.
The low sulphur fuel doesn't have enough lubricity for the old systems!
NG

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john in la

03-04-2005 04:35:46




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
It really depends on where you live and the diesel supplier you use.

Years ago there was only high sulfur diesel. To reduce emissions they started making low sulfur diesel but only required its use in road trucks. So now high sulfur can only be used off road so it is always dyed red. Since this requires another tank to store fuel for the supplier and manufacture some only stock low sulfur because it can be used on or off road. In fact I know of many farmers that order dyed low sulfur diesel because they do not like to use high sulfur. In the future there may only be low sulfur as the trend is headed that way.

So now your question may have many answers.
It would be bad to use clear road diesel in your tractor because of the road tax you will have to pay. But if you did not want to use high sulfur off road diesel you may be able to find dyed low sulfur. Dyed low sulfur is road diesel that has been dyed to show no tax has been paid on it. In fact you may already be buying it and not know it. The bill may say high sulfur but that does not mean anything because of the way the law reads on the subject. You would need to talk to the owner where you buy fuel. He may not even know if it is a small place but he can give you the number to his jobber and this guy can tell you where you can get dyed low sulfur or if you are already buying it.

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leland

03-04-2005 05:41:22




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to john in la, 03-04-2005 04:35:46  
The tax is no big deal just submit the right tax forms nd you get that money refunded back to you. And in some parts of the country the only differance between on&off road fuel is the dye same fuel color is the only thing different about it.



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Redmud

03-04-2005 03:11:56




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
Farm Diesel has a high sulfur content, and road fuel has a low sulfur content. And the powers that be, have equipment that can point you out on a crowded Interstate for burning high sulfur fuel in your pickup truck. It won't be to long before you will be burning lo-sulfur fuel in your tractor, then the difference will only be the dye and the price.



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Bob

03-03-2005 22:17:46




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Northwest dude, 03-03-2005 21:42:43  
Yeah, burning highway diesel in your farm tractor is BAD... for your pocketbook.

You would be paying "road fuel tax" of 40 or 50 cents per gallon, while burning the fuel "off-road".



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mike brown

03-04-2005 09:06:11




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Bob, 03-03-2005 22:17:46  
I think it all becomes ultra low sulfur in2006.
I read somewhere that its not the lack of sulfur that causes loss of lubricity but the process that ramoves the sulfur also removes the wax components that lubricate injection pump parts. Adding low ash two cycle oil is said to improve lubricity.



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mike brown

03-04-2005 08:52:02




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 Re: Hwy Diesel in reply to Bob, 03-03-2005 22:17:46  
I think it all becomes ultra low sulfur in2006.
I read somewhere that its not the lack of sulfur that causes loss of lubricity but the process that ramoves the sulfur also removes the wax components that lubricate injection pump parts. Adding low ash two cycle oil is said to improve lubricity.



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