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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

perkins diesels

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Hurst

04-24-2005 10:00:20




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Is it possible to put thinner sleeves in a 236 perkins diesel to make it a 248 cubic inch motor? If I were to do this, what other modifications would be needed? Are the fuel injection pumps on these motors easy to turn up like Simms pumps, or are they only able to be turned up by taking them apart? Am I looking at any problems with doing this, or is a 248 perkins what I am talking about? Also, where could I get an overbore kit for this motor? Would I just use the 248 overhaul kit and take out the old thicker sleeves and replace with the thinner sleeves to get the displacement? Thanks in advance for your help.

Hurst

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jdemaris

04-24-2005 14:41:35




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 Re: perkins diesels in reply to Hurst, 04-24-2005 10:00:20  
If it has the rotary distributor CAV pump, it's easy to turn up without taking it apart. CAV also made an in-line pump that looks just like a Simms in-line, but I don't think that's what you have?



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buickanddeere

04-24-2005 10:14:08




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 Re: perkins diesels in reply to Hurst, 04-24-2005 10:00:20  
That's a whole screaming ground pounding two extra gears faster with 5% more displacement and maybe 4-5% more power..... ..... ..... ..... About 59HP with the 236 at 1800 rpms and approx 62HP with a 248. Why bother?



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Hurst

04-24-2005 10:17:12




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 Re: perkins diesels in reply to buickanddeere, 04-24-2005 10:14:08  
Can the injection pump be turned up easily on a 236 to get some more hp? Would this be too hard on the perkins, from what I understand they are tought little engines. Thanks for the quick reply buckanddeere.

Hurst



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buickanddeere

04-24-2005 10:39:22




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 Re: perkins diesels in reply to Hurst, 04-24-2005 10:17:12  
Those numbers are about peak HP for a conventional natural aspirated diesel. You can turn the pump up and get 15-20% more power by buring 50% more fuel. Engine wear will be accelerated by wahsing lube oil off the cylinder walls with unburned fuel. The piston rings/groove swill load up with soot and stick. The ports will fill with soot. Time for a bigger tractor or a smaller load. You can't put five gallons in a four gallon pail.

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jdemaris

04-24-2005 19:08:58




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 Re: I don't agree in reply to buickanddeere, 04-24-2005 10:39:22  
I'm not a Perkins expert, but that is absolutely NOT universally true for diesels in tractors - regardless if naturally aspirated,turbocharged, supercharged, intercooled, direct injected, indirect injected, etc. I know of many, including several Deere models, that came from the factory "detuned." Several companies use the same engine in different model tractors having different horsepower ratings - all done with the fuel delivery - and nothing more except sometimes a larger radiator. True also that there are many engines set at max. efficiency and reliable horsepower - and any further increases in fuel delivery do little more than make smoke and heat. The older Deere 2520 responded very well to fuel delivery increases. The 3020 did not. With the 50 series ag. tractors, there were a couple of models that we upped the power by 15 % and they burned clean - ran cool - and lasted very well. From the factory the 2350 came with 56 horse, 2550 with 66 horse, and 2750 with 75 horse - all had the same engines - except the 2750 was turbocharged. Seems I read that when Dodge first used the Cummins 5.9 in their pickup trucks, it too was used in a very "detuned" state. This left room in the future to easily boost the horsepower when competition called for it, without any major upgrades.

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buickanddeere

04-25-2005 08:16:46




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 Re: I don't agree, my numbers just proved what you in reply to jdemaris, 04-24-2005 19:08:58  
The 239 cubic inch 2355/2555 making 66HP at 2100rpm is right on the money and even 69 HP would be close but stretching it. The turbo 239 in the 2755 making 75Hp is correct and even 79HP figures about right. What was it about the numbers you didn't understand? Of course some engines are detuned. It's smart marketing and saves money on production and parts inventory. There is a max you crank them up before the fuel is wasted up the stack. Your 236 is about maxed at 59HP at 1800 rpms. Rpms and volumetric efficiency will have to be improved to make more HP. Either better flowing ports/manifolds/muffler/filtration to support higher rpm natutal aspirated operation. Or use forced induction and beef up the engine/cooling as required.

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jdemaris

04-25-2005 08:50:15




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 Re: I don't agree, my numbers just proved what you in reply to buickanddeere, 04-25-2005 08:16:46  
I believe I understand the numbers just fine. Perhaps I didn't take your post in proper context. I didn't read the entire sequence of posts with responses since I have a painfully slow dial-up connection. I can't get cable or DSL and I'm too cheap to put in a uplink/downlink satellite system. I thought you were making a general statement about all diesels in tractors and the way they respond to increases in fuel-delivery. Perhaps you were being specific to the Perkins?
As far as the guy's Perkins - as I said I'm not an expert. Only worked on a few three clyinder 152s and repaired a few four cylinder CAV pumps. My point, was and is, some diesel engines respond very well to fuel delivery increases without a loss in efficiency. The Deere 2350, from the factory, had 10 less horse than the 2550 with the same engine. All done with fuel delivery. As I recall, the 2550 had enhanced cooling - bigger radiator perhaps? We turned up a lot of 2350s with no observed deleterious effects.

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buickanddeere

04-25-2005 10:23:37




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 Re: I don't agree, my numbers just proved what you in reply to jdemaris, 04-25-2005 08:50:15  
JD, Sorry I didn't notice it was you when I got huffy. I thought it was still Hurst. Yes a 1990's vintage 239 Deere is detuned at 59HP and will make HP in the high 60's before wasting fuel.



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