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totally off topic...calling all math geniuses

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jd jim A

07-19-2005 22:46:01

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There's a TV tower near St. Ansgar IA, which I just found out is 1565 feet tall. Pretty impressive to look straight up at. Considering the curvature of the earth, it possible to figure out how far a guy could see from the top, assuming a perfectly clear day?

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jwm

07-20-2005 17:30:28

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

It depends on which way you are looking. If you are looking down you can see 1565 feet. If you are looking up you can see as fae as the nearest cloud, or if no clouds, as far as the haze will let you. If you are looking sideways you can see all the way to the horizon. James, Assoc. Prof. of math. at m.I.T., ESQ.

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txgrn

07-20-2005 17:35:38

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jwm, 07-20-2005 17:30:28

You can see past the horizon. Like today, I was watching the remnants of Emily (clouds in the sky with my n@ked eyeball) which dove into central Mexico yesterday and I'm almost to Oklahoma.

Mark

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Kevin (FL)

07-20-2005 06:48:38

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

Farmall Don is right on the money. About 48 1/2 miles. It would seem that it should be further but as a point of reference--when you're on the water, you can only see about 3 or 4 miles to the horizon on a clear day. This distance increases with your boat's size/height above the water. For ships, the distance can go up to 7 or 8 miles.

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txgrn

07-20-2005 17:32:58

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Kevin (FL), 07-20-2005 06:48:38

We used to stand on the beach at Biloxi and see Ship Island a distance of 10 miles.

Mark

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Kevin (FL)

07-21-2005 05:06:37

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to txgrn, 07-20-2005 17:32:58

Hi Mark,

You're right about that too. The sight distance goes up quick when there are objects above ground level. We could see Horn Island from the coast also and I think it's about 12 miles offshore. It had tall pine trees on it. Ship Island has Fort Massachusetts on it. That's quite a place--our family went out there over the 4th of July. They've built pavillions near the beach with showers and tables. When I was a kid the only shade on the island was the hambuger stand or in the fort.

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txgrn

07-21-2005 05:48:40

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Kevin (FL), 07-21-2005 05:06:37

I thought you'd know what I was talking about. I was stationed there for 4 years back in the '60's. Wanted to go offshore and fish those islands and all but was too poor and the dream dissolved..... but I did make a few trips out to horn from the Gulfport harbor in a 13ft boat with a 27hp Scott Atwater motor however.....quite a trip but on the North side of Horn in that little cove (up in the horn) were some really nice fish.

Had to really know what the weather was going to do and did get caught a couple of times. Definitely didn't like those squalls that would blow up and the lightening especially.

Nice yakin

Mark

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old

07-20-2005 06:56:17

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Kevin (FL), 07-20-2005 06:48:38

Not sure where you get your info from, but when I was in the navy they always told us we could see 12 miles. But that was also the milatary and you know how much they don't know. LOL

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Red Dave

07-20-2005 06:19:50

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

Go to Chicago. Take the elevator to the observation deck of the Sears Tower. If memory serves me it's at about 1460 feet. It'll give you an idea of the view from that TV tower with a lot less "pucker factor".
Not exactly the same height, but you won't notice the difference.

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Redmud

07-20-2005 05:28:37

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

How bout let's ask the guy that change the bulbs on top, this math is making my head hurt.

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Farmall Don

07-20-2005 05:13:12

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

Using a little basic math and assuming the mean radius of the earth is 3,959miles, I calculate 48.45 miles. This does not take into account hills or obstructions (tree"s, etc...). Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but thats my theory.

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REDEYE

07-20-2005 09:28:36

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Farmall Don, 07-20-2005 05:13:12

now just how did you calculate that? i sketched it out on paper and i am missing an angle or length somewhere or overlooking some geometric identity, as i cant find a third piece of information to make a triangle. i did sketch it in autocad and got the same answer you did of 48.4457 miles. funny thing is that even at that height you would only be looking one degree below horizontal to see the "edge of the earth"

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Pythagoras....

07-20-2005 11:17:14

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to REDEYE, 07-20-2005 09:28:36

Use my thereom A2 + B2 = C2. Let A (one leg of right triangle) = Radius of Earth. Let C (hypotenus) = Radius of Earth + height of tower. Solve for B (opposite leg of right triangle) which is the distance from the top of the tower to the tangent point on the surface of the Earth. Hope this makes sense! It's been a long time since geometry....

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engineerED

07-20-2005 19:45:44

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Pythagoras...., 07-20-2005 11:17:14

did anyone remember that the earth drops 6ft every mile... that would add to the distance visible

cant draw a pic on here but that is a signifigant move of the base line.

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txgrn

07-21-2005 04:37:56

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to engineerED, 07-20-2005 19:45:44

Well sir, if you draw the tangent to the circumference of the earth as was in the initial post and the end of the tangental line touches the top of the tower, where the line is tangent to the earth (perpindicular to the radius) is 48ish miles out from the base (measured along the circumference) and yes it is on a (curving) radius.

HTH.

Mark

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Loren

07-19-2005 23:09:27

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

If my poor math is close I'd say your sight would reach tangent with the Earth's surface, if a perfect circle, at close to 48.5 miles. That what you had in mind?

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txgrn

07-20-2005 04:19:37

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Loren, 07-19-2005 23:09:27

Sounds pretty close without any figuring. But then, if someone had a tower on the other side then the distance (reception) would be extended by the height of that tower.....hence the TV rotators and towers on rural homes that were/are wayyyyy y up there.

Good antennas are great, but you gotta get them up to get the "line of sight" reception from distant stations.....but today you have Satellite, and not only that, Ultra High Frequency Satellite, so you can mount the "little dish" on the side of your house and get perfect digital TV, all 200 or so channels of it..... whadda dea.....except in high density rain.....but what the heck. It doesn't rain like that very often.

Any of the old "C" Band antennas still in anyone's yard?

Mark

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Alberta Mike

07-20-2005 09:13:55

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to txgrn, 07-20-2005 04:19:37

I don't know what "C" band is but I have an attic antennae. I must be the only guy left on the planet without satellite or cable or some other fandangled TV setup. I've never had anything but the old airwaves thing, used to use rabbit ears then about 30 years ago my neighbour got cablevision and he gave me his roof mounted TV antennae. I collapsed it down, took it up in my attic and spread it out and hung it from the roof rafters, works perfect. I get about 5-6 channels (one in French which I don't understand but I can watch hockey on there OK if I don't like the game that English TV is broadcasting on Hockey Night in Canada). Get pretty good reception too and the best thing of course is that it's FREE. No wonder all my friends are broke and I've got nothing but money.

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Bret4207

07-21-2005 15:42:27

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-20-2005 09:13:55

A guy told a joke on " Madly off in all directions" on CBC radio a while back. He said that to a fat kid in Ontario in the '60's, (him),there was nothing like "Hockey Night in Canada". He also said his Mom ruled the roost and there were 2 words that darn near killed him- Tommy Hunter. If Mom wanted to watch Tommy, that was that. Growing up on the border that name brought back a flood of memories. Watched that show when the reception was good. Never got Hockey Night.

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Alberta Mike

07-21-2005 16:26:15

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Bret4207, 07-21-2005 15:42:27

Don't know how old you are but when Hockey Night in Canada started about '56 or '57 out west here, we only got the 2nd and 3rd periods of the games from TO or Montreal. They started here at 6PM on TV, guess that was 8PM down east. The program just before those early editions of HNIC was "The Plouffe Family", do you remember that? One of the Plouffe's was a hockey player with the Montreal Maroons hockey team, on the show anyways.

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txgrn

07-21-2005 04:42:24

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-20-2005 09:13:55

C band is pretty low frequency requiring a large dish to capture the quarter wave. So C band antennas sit in the yard and are like 8 ft in diameter....really an eye sore, especially for folks with little yards.

Mark

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Jim.UT

07-20-2005 10:48:02

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-20-2005 09:13:55

yep, I got an antenna in the rafters of my attached garage. 7 channels, all free and worth every penny! The problem is, I don't know that the cost of subscription TV (satellite or cable) would dramatically increase the value of what's on the tube. About all I need to see is an occasional Jazz game (less so lately) and the news. Other than that I just watch a DVD once in awhile.

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Kevin in OK

07-20-2005 10:21:34

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Alberta Mike, 07-20-2005 09:13:55

Your not the ONLY one, we also have an antenna in our attic. Also get pretty good reception. 10 channels or so, all free, all English. Can't be beat.

Kevin

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Richard H.

07-20-2005 06:18:09

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Does a new one count? in reply to txgrn, 07-20-2005 04:19:37

Almost to the date, three years ago we took a lightning strike. Did all the usual electronic damage, computer, microwaves etc. Oh... and the good OLD 8" sat dish. We have replacement insurance, so I"m thinkin newer faster best I can build computer, new appliances, cutting a deal with the sattelite co. and using the sat mast for a really neat flag pole! WROOOONNNNG! Story short.. I got what I wanted and she got a brand new completly useless 10" C-band dish for what she says is nostalgic? But that"s ok, the other day I told her I was on the prowl for a mid 30"s J D and all she said was " Wow I want to go with you if find one" Richard

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txgrn

07-21-2005 04:40:04

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Re: Does a new one count? in reply to Richard H., 07-20-2005 06:18:09

Sounds like you won that one. Were'd you install the antenna..... behind a row of cedars? LOL

Mark

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Richard H.

07-21-2005 06:42:47

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Re: Does a new one count? in reply to txgrn, 07-21-2005 04:40:04

Nope, they put the 10 footer on the same 3" mast. It stands in the middle of a kidney shaped flower garden. I call it her satellite shrine. LOL Richard

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txgrn

07-21-2005 04:48:47

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Re: Does a new one count? in reply to txgrn, 07-21-2005 04:40:04

Funny you suffered a strike on a UHF dish. being small, round, plastic (mostly), and mounted to the side of the house, it seems to be an unlikely antenna; not like those 150ft steel towers I mentioned.

Mark

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Loren

07-19-2005 22:56:55

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

Theoretically yes, but I would bet your visual limitation would be more dependant on just how clear the day was and the immediate terrain features. Like around here, there's so many hills and mountains a 500 footer would afford all you could get. JMHO though.

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RAB

07-19-2005 22:54:33

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to jd jim A, 07-19-2005 22:46:01

In your speak, about 93 million miles on a clear day. Just look up and you will see the sun.
Regards, RAB

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Roy in UK

07-20-2005 04:50:47

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to RAB, 07-19-2005 22:54:33

Better still at night. Even the nearest star is about 4.36 light years away!

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aFORDable

07-20-2005 06:02:55

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Roy in UK, 07-20-2005 04:50:47

Roy, how come I can see the stars but can't see well enough to read the dialy?

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Arthur

07-20-2005 08:38:23

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to aFORDable, 07-20-2005 06:02:55

I s'pect you can see as far as the eye can see....

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Brian 1

07-20-2005 09:10:29

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Re: totally off topic...calling all math geniuses in reply to Arthur, 07-20-2005 08:38:23

Just don't look down...

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