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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt

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Jim-bobb

10-14-2005 18:51:10




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I have a JD 420 that I want to use the front loader for snow removal. Being in Northern MI, temps can get to -20F.

The tractor came with a puny size 1 8 volt battery rated at 430 cold cranking amps at 32F.

By removing the tool box & rotten battery tray, I could install a large 6 volt battery with 1080 cold cranking amps at 32 or 880 CCA at 0 degree F.

Would I be better with the large 6-volt battery? I could not find a larger 8 volt battery & 430 CCA at 32F is not much current.

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SMA in NE

10-17-2005 19:09:50




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
Not something I have specifically checked but, if an 8 volt battery is installed in a tractor and the generator or alternator is not changed isn't it only going to be charging the battery up to six volts? The charging system isn't going to know what battery is connected to the tractor.



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Gene Davis (Ga.).

10-16-2005 16:08:35




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
8 volt batteries are almost always a source of frustration and problems. The best way to make that series of John Deere Dubuque tractors crank with the stock 6 volt system is to ground the battery directly to the starter with a good clean connection from a good quality cable. The braided ground straps always caused problems even while they were all new.



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john d

10-15-2005 17:10:43




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
The 6-volt battery will crank longer. The 8 volt will likely crank faster - while it cranks. 12 volts may solve the problem better. Good connections and heavy cables are a MUST if you stay with 6 volts.



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KB

10-15-2005 17:10:41




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
We have a 40 that we use to plow snow with and it still has the original 6 volt system. I have started it at -30 slow to crank but it started, which in my mind is all that counts. It is stored inside an out building and all we do is hand a trouble light on the dip stick. The only year we ever had an issue with it starting in the winter was the year we couldn"t afford to replace the dieing battery. Otherwise we just make sure the inginition system is in good shape in the fall when we put the blade on the tractor. As long as everything is clean and tuned up she fires up every time. Personnally all I can see a 12 volt system does for you is hide problems and cover up poor maintenance. I would leave it at 6 volt.

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John T

10-14-2005 20:50:36




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
Jim, I have NEVER been a fan of 8 volt batery systems. I would EITHER use the biggest rated 6 volt that will physically fit in the battery compartment and use 00 Gauge Cables or else go ahead and convert to 12 volts. Things are more standard and available that way for sure. Long ago I owned one of those 6/12 batterys with a big top mounted relay and it started on 12 volts but then went back to 6. That was wierd but worked fine.

John T

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jdemaris

10-14-2005 19:18:16




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
I've got a couple of 6 volt tractors that I use for snow in the winter here in central New York and we sometimes get -30F. With my Cletrac HG dozer and Case VAC tractor, I gave up farting around with the 6 volt batteries in the winter - the tractors would never start unless they had their block heaters plugged in. So, every winter I put 12 volt batteries in them and unhook the charging systems. I don't ever use the tractors long enough where it matters - just for moving snow. Never had a problem. Every spring, I put the 6 volt batteries back in and rehook the charging sytems. If you are looking for more of a 6 or 8 volt battery, remember the cranking amps are different when comparing different voltages. A 6 volt battery with 500 CCA is equal to an 8 volt battery with 375 CCa or a 12 volt battery with 250 CCA.

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Bob

10-14-2005 19:08:52




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 Re: Winter Starting- 8 volt vs 6 volt in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 18:51:10  
My suggestion would be to get a good 6-Volt battery, and install a tank heater to warm the block and coolant for quick and easy starts.

If you are going to go to all the trouble to do a conversion, simply go to 12-Volts, install an alternator, install a dropping resistor ahead of the coil, and switch the coil polarity.

8-Volt systems DO work up to a point, IF you can get the voltage regulator tweaked up a bit, and, likely the breaker point life will be shortened a bit. I just avoid them, and go to 12-Volts, so the battery is common with other vehicles and equipment, and is convenient to charge, or use to jump start other equipment as needed, and will operate standard modern accesories.

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Jim-bobb

10-14-2005 20:08:44




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 8- Volt Conversion in reply to Bob, 10-14-2005 19:08:52  
I prefer not to go with a 12-volt alternator due to the custom mounting brackets. The generator has the pulley extended about an inch forward of the generator body and an alternator pulley is closer requiring a forward off-set. Another item is in front of the generator mounting ear leaving no room for an alternator forward offset. Real pain compared to a simple Ford 9N conversion with lots of room.

The tractor was already converted to 8 volt charging with the tiny 8 volt battery installed. The generator will supply about 8 amps charging current at about 8.5 volts as measured at the battery.

On the other hand, placing in a large 6-volt battery is simple. And if over-charging results, I can adjust the regulator. But 6-volts may not crank the engine high enough no matter how many CCA is available- is that correct?

The 'disconnect generator' & drop-in a 12 volt battery plus 12 volt coil is an idea, but using lights at night may be an issue.

Perhaps a 'bolt-in' 12 volt generator is available. Electrical is a no brainer for me, fabrication of alternator mounts is not easy on this tractor. 12 volts on a six volt starter would make some cranking power.

I also read about an available starter gear reduction drive making the stock starter much more powerful. Any info on this?

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Bob

10-14-2005 20:55:59




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 Re: 8- Volt Conversion in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-14-2005 20:08:44  
Likely, the pulley off of your present generator will transfer to a Delco alternator, giving you the offset you need. If not, it should not be too tough to find an offset pulley for the alternator.

Beyond that, I'm not much help to you!

I believe, if you're a purist, leave it as-original, 6-Volt, and I have no problem with that.

However, for a working tractor that shares it's home with other 12-Volt vehicles and equipment, and is depended upon in adverse conditions, I prefer a change to 12-Volt!

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Jim-bobb

10-15-2005 07:46:00




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 New: What a local mechanic said....... in reply to Bob, 10-14-2005 20:55:59  
A local mechanic told me a starter will only take so many amps winter or summer. A large starter on a large engine would start better with the huge 6-volt battery vs the 8 volt with only 375 CCA at zero degrees.

The small gas engine I have at 113 cu in would respond better with 8-volts as the smaller starter & engine would not draw down the small 8-volt battery even at the 375 CCA rating upon initial start-up.

In other words, 8 volts would probally drop down to 6.25 volts under cranking the cold engine vs a large 6 volt battery supplying about 5 volts. Plus, the coil will supply a hotter spark.

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Pitch

10-15-2005 17:23:00




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 Re: New: What a local mechanic said....... in reply to Jim-bobb, 10-15-2005 07:46:00  
Unless your voltage regulater has been adjusted your eight volt battery probably is only being charged to a bit over 6 anyway. Put a multimeter on and see how much it is putting out.



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Jim-bobb

10-15-2005 22:03:42




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 Re: New: What a local mechanic said....... in reply to Pitch, 10-15-2005 17:23:00  
Puting out about 9 volts & charges 11-12 amps for a few minutes after starting the tractor. Eases back to a few amps once battery is leveled off charge wise.



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