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Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore

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Specter

10-18-2005 07:48:19

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Lets get a big discussion going. No inter-color bickering though; lets keep this constructive.
I have no particular loyalty to any one color of old tractors, so have looked at several different makes of tractors. One thing that has stopped me from going beyond Deere, though, is how difficult they would be to restore. I'd like to get opinions about how easy, or hard, the different makes of old tractors would be to restore (i.e. parts availability, mechanical design, how much information is available, etc.). I'd like info on as many manufacturers as possible.
In advance, thanks for the info.
Specter in Alberta, Canada

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Gene Davis (Ga.).

10-19-2005 20:11:08

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Earthmasters have been quite challenging to round up both parts and information for.

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Specter

10-19-2005 08:08:57

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Thanks, and a question about certain makes in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Thanks boys!

This gives me a better picture. I might try an IH or Allis next. Still curious about Minneapolis Moline, Massey Harris, and Ferguson, though. I have a Ferguson TEA20 that needs some parts, and I'm wondering if there is a good place to get new parts. Maybe the local AGCO dealership? I also see a few Massey and Minneapolis tractors around and am wondering how hard parts are to find.
Again, thanks for the excellent insight!
Specter in Alberta, Canada.

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Christos

10-19-2005 14:36:12

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Re: Thanks, and a question about certain makes in reply to Specter, 10-19-2005 08:08:57

Specter, I would try AGCO for the Fergie Parts. The have a heritage line of parts which comprises alot of the brands that were bought out and merged into the companies that comprise AGCO today. As for a decent tractor, I recommend the Massey-Ferguson 100 series. I have a 135 that is being completely overhauled right now, while it is expensive to buy parts for, if you buy them from AGCO, its still worth it. Those were considered the 'Cadillac' of Tractors (not to incite any brand wars...) The Minnies and Massey Harris Tractors that you are curious about the are part of AGCO (via Merger and buyout).

I hope this helps,

Christos

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Specter

10-19-2005 19:53:31

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Re: Thanks, and a question about certain makes in reply to Christos, 10-19-2005 14:36:12

Thanks Christos. I greatly appreciate the advice that you and the other boys have given me.

I have a neighbor with a Massey 165, and I like the sound and look of it. I've found that they're pretty popular with small farm people, and so typically sell too high for me. I might buy one someday, though. For the time being, at least, I have a bit of a soft spot for the big wheatland tractors.

Thanks for the info!

Specter

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barnrat

10-19-2005 06:15:22

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I would have to say the easiset to restore wuld be the JD 2cylinder tractors. I started dairying 5 years ago with 50 jersey cows, an 830, 2 730 diesels and a 50. I had numerous age related tractor failures and had no trouble finding any parts though my local JD dealer. I think a good dealer, JD AGCO or Case IH New Holland would be able to find parts for their respecive brands. On the other side would be off brand restores seem to be risky.

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Farmered

10-19-2005 01:42:28

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

IH has always been jealous of their parts and early-on fixed it so you had to use OEM parts only
whether it was for an H or M or for the family Travelall. This makes it doubley hard when your friendly CIH dealer tells you "no longer available". It is rare that you can find IH parts on any interchange list. Ed

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JIm_bobb

10-18-2005 21:15:18

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I have no experience. But, my JD 420 has a lot of parts available. One 'rare part' event was I decided to replace the first gears & bearings. They are noisy compared to the other gears that make no noise. I was surprised to find only three available of one gear & only one other different gear in JD inventories across the USA.

One gear is now not available new from a JD dealer as of today.

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Charlie M

10-18-2005 17:59:11

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I'm working on a W30 thats tough going as a lot of work has to be done under the tractor and they aren't the easiest to fit under if your on the large size. I had to fix a bad rear tire when I first brought it home before I could get under it to work on the engine. Pistons had to come out the bottom.

My 300 U is often a pain as well as there is a lot of stuff in a small area.

The easiest tractor I've worked on is a F14 - simple tractor with lots of room to work.

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Jason in Ohio

10-18-2005 17:25:08

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

As an owner of a 1948 Silver King, I would agree that parts are hard to come by and no one really knows what color to paint them. However, the continental F162 engine used in the 1942 and later models was very common and these parts are easy to get. I would think any Hercules powered Silver King would be more difficult just because the engine parts are rare. In that line of thinking, any orphan produced in low numbers with an uncommon engine would be tough. I am thinking that a centaur would be hard to find parts for.

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Ryan - WI

10-18-2005 16:33:17

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

My vote for hardest would have to be to give a nod to my parents' neighbor. He restores Silver Kings. He has three or four completely restored. How he manages to find parts is beyond me. Most tractor guys when I mention even the name Silver King look at me puzzled.

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Tom Zajicek

08-06-2006 08:45:34

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Ryan - WI, 10-18-2005 16:33:17

Ryan
Read your comments in old posts. I recently purchased a 1945 Silver King and am looking for experts who work with them that I might contact if I need parts and service informtion. Thank you for any information you might have.

Tom Zajicek

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Tom Zajicek

08-06-2006 08:44:13

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Ryan - WI, 10-18-2005 16:33:17

Tom Zajicek

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John M

10-18-2005 14:33:18

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Farmalls are easy to work on and restore,to me. John Deeres are easy to work on, to my brother, but he pays twice as much for parts as he should. I just dont see how a set of spark plugs can be 6 bucks each, when the local parts house has them for 2,give or take.(not that hes dumb enough to pay 6 bucks for a 2 dollar spark plug)

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RandyN

10-18-2005 14:19:17

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Interesting discussion. I have worked with an Allis-Chalmers B; Farmall C, Super C, 300 and Cub; Ford 2N; Case DC and SC; Massey-Harris 30 and 101 Senior.

As far as ease of working on them, it seems six of one, half a dozen of the other...they're all pretty straight-forward. Some are a little easier than others with certain things, for example, the Massey-Harris' don't require you to split the tractor to replace the clutch, you only have to pull the engine forward.

Now, the aggravation....parts. The Allis Chalmers, Farmalls, and Ford N's had parts galore available and, to an exaggerated extent, one could just about build a new tractor from aftermarket parts....especially the Farmalls and Fords. The Case tractors were a little more difficult to find parts for, and my favorite, the Massey-Harris, is a little more challenging yet to find some parts for. However, a lot of that depends on your connections, experience, and fear-factor. For example, it's definitely easier to order new brake shoes from a catalog, but for some tractors such as my 101 Senior Massey, that can't be done. However, you can take the existing brake shoes, and if in okay shape, have them relined.

Parts Catalogs are wonderful, wonderful things because such items as seals and bearings...if you know the Timken number or National number, or the sizes, then you can usually get them from an auto parts store even though your not stepping up to the counter and saying, "gimme a axle seal for a 1944 Massey-Harris 101 Senior"...then, they will look at you funny. I even went to a Case-IH dealership to see if they had front wheel seals still listed for the Case SC. The fellow looked at me and asked, "What's that...a tractor or something?" I didn't know whether to giggle or cry.

RandyN

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Christos

10-18-2005 13:05:11

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I've only had one tractor, my M-F 135, but what from I have seen and read, I'd say the M-F Super 90 and the 135 Model I have with the Z145 engine. Its a lot harder to find 'blood and guts' parts than lets say the Perkins engine that was used starting the year after mine.

I think that in terms of part avaliblity, it would be a JD is easiest, its a lot easier to find a JD dealer than lets say in my area, like again an AGCO/M-F dealer or Case IH/New Holland dealer or finding a junkyard that might have the part you need.

Also another easy one is the aforementioned Ford n series. You can walk into any TSC and get parts for it.

In terms of part costs, I'd say the cheapest is the Ford N series. Most expensive anything JD or Massey.

My 135 has been in the shop for almost 5 months now and its almost ready to come home. However, that said, trying to get parts, like a bare block meant driving all over Ohio to get them (to places like Roberts and Andersens Tractor). Also I have been rehabbing a FB drill - parts are hard to find like the excentric arm needed to help actuate the depth control of the disk openers on the powerlift. Also its 54 years old and no one expects a 21 year old man to be using one of those so you have to berate people to get information on how to find stuff. Case in point - it took four tries to find a mechanic who was willing to fix my tractor - I am glad I found them - I've learned alot from them.

Christos

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Feron

10-18-2005 11:46:40

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I think the easiest restore is the Ford hundred series and 4 cyl 2-4000s. Parts are easy to find new and used. The hardest are the Ford thousand series and the small IH like the 504,464 ect

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Dave_Id

10-18-2005 10:57:17

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

I've restored a Farmall H, an M, and a Massey Harris 101 Senior. By far the Massey was the toughest. Finding parts was no picnic, and it seems every bolt had to be removed with a torch. It took a half day and a bottle of oxygen to remove the sprocket off the transmission shaft.

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Dave_Id

10-18-2005 11:04:31

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Dave_Id, 10-18-2005 10:57:17

I forgot to mention, the Senior I restored was a Standard, and the wheels weighed about a thousand pounds, and I had to make a 3 inch impact socket from a 3 1/4 that I found at a used tool sale place. I borrowed a 1 inch drive impact from my IH dealer. I removed all the quick connect fittings and drove the impact direct. I had to hammer on each nut for a half hour each before she started to break. Pulling the wheels off the tapered shaft, I had to make a special puller., but they finally came off

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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

10-18-2005 13:14:05

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Dave_Id, 10-18-2005 11:04:31

Glad you mentioned this. I guess I won't take the wheels off my MH 30.

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Red Dave

10-18-2005 10:19:33

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Easiest to me would be those that parts are readily available for, such as the Farmall F series & Letter series, Deere A's, B's G's etc. & the Ford N series. If for no other reason than they made so many of them and there are a lot of parts, both new & used available.

Hardest to me would be the ones that were only made for a couple years before the company went bankrupt, or got absorbed by another. The so-called "orphans & oddballs". Like Graham-Bradley, Worthington, Plymouth, Fairbanks-Morse, Silver King.

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Jim.UT

10-18-2005 10:18:35

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Essex Tri-directional in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

It doesn't matter what color you paint it, you just can't find parts for an Essex Tri-Directional. I'm about to give up and sell mine cause I can't get it restored!

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Specter

10-19-2005 08:14:36

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Jim.UT, 10-18-2005 10:18:35

C'mon boys, it's not that easy to pull my leg.

By the way, what kind of implements do you pull in that third direction?

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Galen

10-19-2005 05:25:00

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Jim.UT, 10-18-2005 10:18:35

For reference in case you have missing parts.

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MarkB_MI

10-19-2005 19:39:59

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Galen, 10-19-2005 05:25:00

Galen,

Would that be the "styled" or "unstyled" version?

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Galen

10-19-2005 20:01:08

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to MarkB_MI, 10-19-2005 19:39:59

That's the "unstyled" version - no one has seen the "styled" version yet - it's cloaked.

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Scotmac

10-19-2005 11:31:53

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Galen, 10-19-2005 05:25:00

I remember when our neighbor had one of them. I think he traded for a Hoyt-Clagwell standard tri-plex!

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Specter

10-19-2005 08:18:55

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Galen, 10-19-2005 05:25:00

What's road gear on that one? Warp one?

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Galen

10-19-2005 09:17:07

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Specter, 10-19-2005 08:18:55

That's HIGHLY CLASSIFIED information! Wouldn't want the Borg or Romulans to get ahold of it, would ya?

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Specter

10-19-2005 10:27:10

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Re: Essex Tri-directional Photo in reply to Galen, 10-19-2005 09:17:07

Aha, that's a very good point! Military secrets. ;-)

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Give me the Essex

10-18-2005 15:39:19

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Jim.UT, 10-18-2005 10:18:35

I have atom splitter, a neutron generator and three wheat head pennies I'll trade to you for it. I've always wanted an Essex.

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Dave 2N

10-18-2005 10:54:17

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Jim.UT, 10-18-2005 10:18:35

I agree with Jim UT-

My Essex has been a bear to get restored; not many boneyards out there that have parts for them.

Other than that--Ford N Series are by far the easiest, in my experience. We've also done JD's and Farmalls. JD's not bad until you have to get into radiators, etc. But overall, nothing simpler than a Ford N and lots of parts out there.

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IDF

10-18-2005 18:28:26

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Dave 2N, 10-18-2005 10:54:17

I just painted one of them last week, when I get a chance I will post a photo. I had to be real carefull it didnt blister becuse it is really really HOT down here.

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Keith

10-18-2005 19:39:37

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to IDF, 10-18-2005 18:28:26

Back from the dead, huh?

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IDF

10-19-2005 19:36:57

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No sir in reply to Keith, 10-18-2005 19:39:37

old redface, you know the guy in the pictures that holds a fork and has horns, said I could used his computer here in the office, man is it ever HOT down here. If anybody ever tells you it's hotter then he!!, dont believe them because I can tell you firat hand what this is like down here.

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Red Dave

10-18-2005 10:21:41

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Jim.UT, 10-18-2005 10:18:35

That's because NASA confiscated all the NOS parts back in the '60's to use on the Saturn 5 & Apollo programs.

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Tim...Ok

10-18-2005 10:37:49

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Red Dave, 10-18-2005 10:21:41

Dave Dave Dave

that was a conspiracy,didn"t happen.. the Essex is alive and well,parts are readily available,but you gotta order"em from Australia..I"ve got 2 mint ones in the barn. ;^)

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RustyFarmall

10-18-2005 13:25:20

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Tim...Ok, 10-18-2005 10:37:49

I really didn't have any trouble at all restoring mine, found the parts I needed rather easily. Of course mine is one of the later models, and is only a "BI-DIRECTIONAL".

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Dave 2n

10-19-2005 05:58:10

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to RustyFarmall, 10-18-2005 13:25:20

Well, that explains why your restoration was easier. Therewere a lot more of the later models around so parts were probably easier for you to get.

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Island A

10-18-2005 16:17:18

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to RustyFarmall, 10-18-2005 13:25:20

Again with the Essex. This has to be one of the biggest "inside jokes" there ever was! I don't even quite understand it...
Dave

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Farmered

10-19-2005 02:36:08

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Island A, 10-18-2005 16:17:18

My folks had an Essex car about the time I was born. One story I remember was that every time Dad hit a pothole with it he would have to get out and lift the left rear fender off the wheel to get going again. It also had a vacuum fuel pump which would occasionally lose its prime and would require filling it with gas to get it to work. But them was the good old days! Ed

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george md

10-18-2005 16:58:41

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Island A, 10-18-2005 16:17:18

Island A , The ETD yarn has to be some of the best written stories in recent times . I think the writing is on par with the -- Alexander Botts stories that used to be in the old sat evening post about the Earth- worm tractor company . I have no idea what fired up the madam to remove the yarn as it definitly was not offensive in any way . Do a search for the ETD and you will have an evening of enjoyable reading . I think I still have a picture of it that was posted , have to dig deep in the image file .

george

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Jake from Jakes Corner ,

10-18-2005 22:50:35

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to george md, 10-18-2005 16:58:41

You're right, george, but the complete story of the ETD will probably never be told. Much of the information is restricted to a hand full of people who have Official Secrets Act clearance. Much of the information about the ETD posted on this site was obtained from research conducted in the late 50s by L. Quinn Hopper, MD, phD who disapeared and was last seen in the red light disrict of Bangkok in 1987.

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Mike (WA)

10-19-2005 06:54:35

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Re: Essex Tri-directional in reply to Jake from Jakes Corner , , 10-18-2005 22:50:35

Good to hear from you, Jake. The Mrs. picked up a bottle of Pina Colada mix the other day, and I wondered if some of your crop had found its way into the stuff. Hope all is well.

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RustyFarmall

10-18-2005 09:12:06

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

OK, no color wars. I only have Farmall Hs and M. Parts are readily available from a variety of sources, if you need it, somone, somewhere, has it. 2 cylinder John Deeres would fit in that same category as well as the 2n, 9n, and 8n Fords.

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Chuck MI

10-18-2005 09:04:03

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Local dealer support is huge. I needed to replace the rear wheel bearings in my neighbors '48 Allis G. Started searching high and low with no success, finally got my brain out of the jar and called the AGCO dealer. The guy at the parts counter knew he could get them before he even checked the part number. I was impressed. But I definately paid rent on that shelf space for the last 50 years.

As far as used parts, the popular tractors generally have more easily obtainable parts, but they also are pricey, generally speaking.

Chuck

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Sloroll

10-18-2005 08:26:11

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Any F Series Farmall has my vote for easiest. Two pieces of flat sheet metal and the rest is hanging out to work on. Parts are readily available. Hardest, Any tractor engineered after Lawyers started hobby farming.

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Tim...Ok

10-18-2005 07:56:13

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Specter, 10-18-2005 07:48:19

Can"t get much easier than a ford N.. parts are available everywhere for"em.. Parts haven"t been particularly hard to get for my 38 JD A,but not crazy about having to do thru deere to get them..NAPA has no problems getting engine parts for the styled tractors though..

Tim

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wayne2

10-18-2005 08:34:00

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Tim...Ok, 10-18-2005 07:56:13

Not to throw water on your discussion,Having done a few,f-12 laid around for years,same as Oliver 60 row crop, Didn't have anything to drag behind em,same w/Va Case. My 400 Case tug(after t urning into fake steam Eng.) only used in parades. Tuffist was IH-M Froze up (but free)$$,same problem after completion. Lost 700$ but man who has it enjoys!! My Insight!! Wayne

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John W

10-18-2005 09:18:47

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to wayne2, 10-18-2005 08:34:00

My vote for one of the most challenging would be the Ford Hundred series from the 50's & 60's. I grew up on these and have studied them for 40 yrs. Have a very nice 58 861 with way too much invested in it. Learn something almost every day. The reason I see them as difficult is so many color and model variations were made. See the Ford board for color discussions. Seems most that are for sale have been butchered to some extent in some way. Still have no idea where Ford's management thought they were going with all of their ideas of the time. Broke, i guess. Still some of my favorite tractors, but if correctness is important, you gotta be really careful.

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steveormary

10-18-2005 16:28:47

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to John W, 10-18-2005 09:18:47

OK now,this is the way it works. The hardest tractor to restore is the one you are now restoring. The easiest one would be the one that is clear in the back of your neighbors barn and he wont sell it to you.

steveormary

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Dick L

10-18-2005 17:25:06

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to steveormary, 10-18-2005 16:28:47

steveormary, ya done got my vote.

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wayne2

10-18-2005 19:40:46

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to Dick L, 10-18-2005 17:25:06

I once had a nieghbor like that!!

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steveormary

10-18-2005 20:02:51

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Re: Easiest and Hardest Makes to Restore in reply to wayne2, 10-18-2005 19:40:46

Dick L.

Thanks,once in a while I will come up with a good reply.

steveormary

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