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Deeres warranty work

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billyiron

01-08-2006 08:08:02

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the boy had two new JDs that were recalled for crankshaft replacement,they drilled the oil passages too big and the cranks were snaping in two,any way deere wont stand the oil or antifreeze,,,aint that a crock,,sometimes its the little things that really bite me,,billy

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JOHN IN CT

01-09-2006 19:17:59

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

I don't know anything about that tractor problem but have a similar story. We have a 83 510 B backhoe that we bought brand new. It had a few problems. Deere stood behind it 100%!!!! At the same time, the dealer wanted us to pay for some of the repairs. John Deere wasn't too happy to hear from us that we were being charged for repairs that they already paid the dealer for. Dealer almost lost the franchise.

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G/MAN

01-09-2006 10:17:29

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

Big pile of disinformation here, as usual. No, any affected machines do NOT automatically get new engines. They're actually dealing with two separate issues - one relating to bad crankshaft dampers causing catastrophic engine failure on high-horsepower 6081s equipped with two crankshaft dampers, and the oil-hole issue, which is more prevalent on crankshafts from one foundry, as Deere sources the forgings from multiple companies and machines the crankshafts in-house. They know which machines have the problem crankshafts, and the crankshafts are being replaced - we've done 3 in 4920 sprayers, and I think have one to do in an 8020 tractor - one 20-series tractor out of several dozen we've sold. Deere won't stand the oil or antifreeze? First, why does the antifreeze need replaced? Factory-fill Deere coolant is good for 5 years or 5000 hours, so it can easily be drained into clean containers and reused. And the oil? Let's see, does Deere normally pay for oil changes, which is what it amounts to? Let's see, less than $100 worth of oil and a filter that the customer is responsible as part of a bill that will easily run $5000. Don't worry though, if you cry long and hard enough to the dealer, they'll probably get the oil and filter for you too.

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Jon Hagen

01-09-2006 18:22:24

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-09-2006 10:17:29

Gman. Thank you for correcting some wrong information about the 8.1 engine. I first heard of the Damper problem breaking cranks,then it changed to bad crankshafts causing the problem.You fill me in that both problems exist,depending on the application.

Now that I have thanked you for the good information about the problem,I am going to give you hell for your bad attitude about a customer that has paid up to $100,000(tractor)to $200,000+(combine or sprayer) for a new machine that needs a new crankshaft at 400 hours or less.
I see no reason for the owner of said $100,000-$200,000+ machine to have any obligation to pay for anything needed to repair the engine, including coolant and oil because the problem is totally JD's fault. Do you realize that the practically new machine no longer has a correct factory assembled engine in it,but has somthing patched up by the mechanics in the local dealership,which seldom results in somthing as well fitted and leak free as a new factory built engine. The owner is paying new price for somthing that is referbished. I would not think it terribly unreasonable considering lemon laws,for an owner of one of these machines to demand a new engine for his new machine,or for JD to buy it back from him.

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G/MAN

01-10-2006 15:45:42

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to Jon Hagen, 01-09-2006 18:22:24

In my opinion, Deere SHOULD probably pick up the oil and filter tab. And as I said, coolant replacement should not be necessary, although Deere should provide any makeup coolant to refill to a full level after the repair. But that said, my opinion on the subject doesn't mean beans, and Deere is not alone when doing things like that. I was a service technician for a New Holland dealership, and they recommended (maybe required) a 50-hour service for new machines. NH would pay the labor and the customer had to buy the oil and filters, which ran into quite a chunk of change on a big 4wd tractor, as you can imagine. But I seldom if ever heard of anyone complaining about that, as they knew it would benefit the machine long-term. Deere requires no such 50-hour service, so are they "shafting" their customers by not paying for the oil and filter during this repair process, when the purchaser of a brand-new New Holland tractor would have spent much more for oil and filters for a tractor with NO problems? As far as "refurbished" and what we do at the dealership level not being as good as it left the factory, I would beg to differ. I've overhauled several dozen engines, including somewhere around 12 Deere engines in various machines, and haven't seen one come back yet. One 8200 I overhauled last year at this time is as solid and leak-free as it was the day it left the factory. It's all in how much effort and time you want to put into the job, and how concerned you are that its done right. Were the factory guys "perfect", we wouldn't be DOING this, would we? Demanding a new engine hasn't been an issue, and nor should it be, because the remaining warranty obviously remains intact, and Deere will be just as responsible for that "refurbished" machine as they would for a new one. And as far as brand-new engines go, pretty much every one I've heard of that had a catastrophic bottom-end failure DID get a complete new engine, as it wasn't worth the risk and time to short-block them if it so happened that there wasn't a rod hanging out of the block. Sure, you can demand a new engine and you may very well get one, but be advised that the extra cost is going to be turned around and put right back on the customers in the form of higher prices on machines.

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billyiron

01-09-2006 16:42:47

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-09-2006 10:17:29

Hey scooter I know who your working for,,I just changed oil in those 85s before I knew about the recall,we always give em new oil to sit out the winter, the antifreeze? seems like some is always lost in a repair like this,,,Yeah but what the heck just sock it to the guy,,now get your green shorts out of your crack,,,billy

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G/MAN

01-10-2006 15:53:03

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-09-2006 16:42:47

So how much coolant does an 8520 hold? Seems to me about 7.5 gallons or so. So yeah, you'll likely lose a gallon here or there, if your'e a comlete slob. I lost count of how many upper fan shroud PIPs I did, and I don't recall losing anywhere near a gallon doing those. So if it takes a gallon to top one back off, it's going to set the customer back all of $10 or less. That will definitely make or break some guys, won't it Scooter? Want to hear about Deere "socking it to guys". Here's a personal experience to go along with yours - one that might carry a little more weight. We had a customer with an 8300T. He bought the Power-Gard extended powertrain warranty. About 200 hours or so after the warranty expired, it shelled out the big bearings that carry those huge track drive hubs on the rear final-drive housings. Ruined one side completely and was in the process of doing it to the other side. Total parts and labor came to around $25,000. I know, because I fixed it. Deere didn't have to fix it, we didn't have to try and PERSUADE them to fix it, and he didn't have a leg to stand on if he wanted to try and make them, because the machine was well out of warranty. But they went ahead and fixed it. He paid the same $500 deductible he would have paid had it still been in warranty, and not one cent more - not even for oil and filters. So, Deere bit the bullet, and he repaid their efforts by trading it in on a Cat Challenger he got a cut-throat deal on. So don't come crying to me about buying oil and antifreeze Scooter.

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billyiron

01-10-2006 16:59:27

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-10-2006 15:53:03

Yep them geen shorts are wedged in pretty tight huh scooter,,,,, billy

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G/MAN

01-11-2006 07:28:36

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-10-2006 16:59:27

Must suck to have to talk smack because you can't make an argument that will hold water.

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billyiron

01-11-2006 10:47:34

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-11-2006 07:28:36

This is fun!!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!billy

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Heat Houser

01-08-2006 15:18:32

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

try this,
USA/Canada Customer Assistance Center:
1-866-993-3373
7:00 am - 5:00 pm Monday through Friday CT (Standard and Daylight)

Or click here

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barnrat

01-08-2006 15:09:08

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

That happened to the guy that does my vertical tillage last year. Stopped that brand new tractor dead. Deere did stand behind it and the dealer gave him a loaner to use while they fixed it.

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agrogers

01-08-2006 14:00:04

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

As far as I know, there is a recall for all their 8.1L engines since I think Summer '04 because the crank journal on cylinder #4, and anything with the 8.1L gets a new motor. That means the 60 series combines, 8020 series tractors, their sprayers and some industrial apps too I believe.

Yes, it's a crock, but at least they are doing something. I don't see how a company could not issue a recall when their tractors are pushing 200k and combines 250k...

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G/MAN

01-09-2006 10:20:37

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to agrogers, 01-08-2006 14:00:04

Wrong. There is no "recall", as Deere isn't bringing them back to the factory. They're being fixed by the dealers, and nowhere NEAR "all 6081" engines are affected. A very small percentage is, in fact. Parts inventory and installation records are such that they know which machines are affected, and those machines will be repaired. The 6081 has been in production for 10+ years, at up to 337 horsepower in non-marine applications, and at 375 horsepower in marine applications, so it's not an issue of proper engine design or the engines being able to handle the applications. Anyone with a real clue about Deere engines knows that the 6081 is probably one of the three or four best engines Deere has ever built.

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agrogers

01-09-2006 14:24:46

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-09-2006 10:20:37

Touch�.

What I meant was all 8.1L manufactured since a specific serial#, dating somewhere during summer of '04. I also said I could be wrong. As you have made clear so very strongly, the equipment with those engines within the various serial #'s are being repaired.

I never said it wasn't a good engine. I wouldn't have an 8410 and an 8100 if it wasn't.

Please excuse my invalid "clue" in the matter. Just trying to add to the discussion.

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G/MAN

01-09-2006 16:23:20

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to agrogers, 01-09-2006 14:24:46

Sorry if I was a jerk, but I've heard this garbage time and again to the point that it's simply ridiculous how much misinformation there is out there. But that's the nature of what I refer to as "coffee-shop gossip". But no, it's not every engine built after a certain serial number or during a certain time period, either. The earliest 8020 we service out of this shop is around the 400th one built, and we have one with serial number 37,XXX out front now, and so far we've only been told that one tractor we're responsible for is affected. One of our sister stores has had two combine engines fail that I know of. One failed on Friday afternoon or evening, as was running again on Sunday evening with a complete new engine that Deere somehow managed to have a freight company deliver to the dealership on Sunday, so they are definitely bending over backward to fix this problem. You own a couple of good tractors there. I probably prefer the 8410 to an 8420, base tractor to base tractor until you get into the goodies like the ILS and Active-Seat, and the 8100 is a good one, also. Your 8100 must be a #10,000-and-up unit if it also has the 6081, correct? The 6076 used in the early 8100, 8200 and 8300 is an awesome engine in its own right, but I really feel that the 6081 is something special. I've dynoed three or four 8400s this winter already doing inspections, and haven't had one yet lay down less than 260 horsepower.

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agrogers

01-09-2006 18:01:30

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to G/MAN, 01-09-2006 16:23:20

I understand your position on these various rumors that go around, especially from a professional standpoint. Blatant ignorance tends to disturb those who know what they're talking about, and it rightly should!

There is no doubt in my mind that Deere is doing everything they can. I find myself questioning what I stated eariler about the engine failures being a "crock", becuase a company that big is bound to make mistakes. And with more product support than you can shake a stick at, there's little room to be doubtful of their products. Also, while I have always had a weakness for green, I am not quite sure that I stand behind some of their more recent decisions, like dropping their tried-and-true cylinder-walker combines, and moving some of their manufacturing overseas. I understand their sales pitch for the STS, as well as their position financially for cheap overseas labor, but I think as consumers, we might find some quality has been sacrificed over the next few years.

Yes, the 8100 is a 98' so it has the 8.1L. I really like them both. The 8410 is all tillage, while the 8100 is my planting tractor. I have had no trouble with them, and the support of my local dealer is phenomenal.

I test drove an 8320 with ILS and front and rear duals, and it was butter! However, having grown up aboard an open station Allis 190XT, I feel spoiled in cabs with radios, air conditioning and heat. And I like the comparitively simple functionality of the seat and front axles of my 8100 and 8410. I'm pushing 4000 hours on the 8100. Getting to be time for valve adjustments and dampeners...

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G/MAN

01-10-2006 16:05:31

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to agrogers, 01-09-2006 18:01:30

Ah, a guy that knows the value of preventive maintenance and following OEM suggestions, lol. I always make a note of balancer age and hours on inspections. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I have a feeling that the recommendation is at 4500 hours because Deere feels that's the absolute earliest they can start failing in the worst conditions, but they're probably actually good to go for several thousand more hours. As I said, some guys replace and some guys take the chance. It's not an especially fun job on an 8000/8010 of any vintage, thanks to that big, black intake tube, but a good 3 or 4 hours can usually have one swapped, along with a new front seal. When it comes to adjusting valves, it's worth checking, especially on later engines with those nice plastic gaskets with the rubber seals. Much nicer than scraping off cork. Most always, the valves will just be a few thousandths off an still within specs, as Deere gives quite a bit of leeway, but it's relatively cheap insurance. We SPG valve adjustment at around 3.5 hours on an 8000, but if the hood is already off for inspection and the technician can't do it in well under an hour, there's something wrong. My only real gripe about any of the 8000s is that I've never got any real amount of field-time in one. I've driven probably 200 or more of them here at the shop and on service calls, have done some post-repair testing and demos, but haven't ever spent hours on end in one, and I'd like to. I help my uncle and grandpa farm some on weekends when I can, and they don't have anything newer than the 4560 (which is still a nice ride) or bigger than their 7210 and 7410. At any rate, we simple don't work on 6081s to any degree, apart from simple stuff like nozzles, exhaust gaskets, an occasional front or rear seal, etc. I've overhauled on 6076 out of an 8200, and have had two 6081s off the front frames to replace pan gaskets, and that's the extent to which I've had to dig into 8000-series engines to any depth. But it sure will be nice when we start doing more overhauls and underhauls, and can hoist the motor off and stick it right on the rollover stand. As much as I like engine work, I don't enjoy the old drip on the head of doing a conventional overhaul or underhaul on the older tractors.

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buickanddeere

01-08-2006 09:38:17

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

It's a simple as somebody on the production line being given the wrong tools or the wrong instructions. Snapped cranks are usually the result of stress risers forming from a sudden sharp edge/notch or corner. A blended polished radius is very robust.

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G/MAN

01-09-2006 10:21:57

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to buickanddeere, 01-08-2006 09:38:17

I've seen the paperwork on this, and it's more of a forging problem than machining problem, and is occuring most often on cranks from one specific foundry.

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jdp

01-08-2006 09:12:35

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to billyiron, 01-08-2006 08:08:02

what model of deere tractors where they

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billyiron

01-08-2006 09:27:59

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Re: Deeres warranty work in reply to jdp, 01-08-2006 09:12:35

8520s

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