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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

How much weight will it hold

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old

10-23-2006 17:35:55




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I'm thinking about doing a 18X18 inch grid with 1/4 slick rod in the over head of my shop to hold syrafoam for inslation. With the rods spaning a 10 foot or so span how much weight will that grid hold. This is old dock foam so some of it is still heavy but it sure would be nice to be able to heat the shop better and use less wood doing so.
Thanks

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Gerald J.

10-24-2006 10:39:46




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
Codes, schmodes! This stuff burns so fast you can't run to the door before your gassed and its dripping down your shirt. Whether you have codes or not the codes are there because the stuff is deadly hazardous to your health. Enclose it or die.

Gerald J.



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ChrisLSD

10-24-2006 08:15:21




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
just an idea for you - since the wet stuff is probably not a great insulator and the chucks are big - take a piece of wire and use that as a sawblade (or use a bandsaw type deal) and cut for example 3" slabs of the insulation off and only insulate 3" deep at a time - 3" of well placed well sealed insulation is going to make a world of difference in heating amounts



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RAB

10-24-2006 04:08:20




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
Apart from choking black smoke, styrene produces cyanide on combustion as well. If one doesn"t get you the other might! Seal it up so no combustion air can get to it and put it where it cannot melt and run down into a fire. A ceiling is just not the place for this stuff.
RAB



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paul

10-23-2006 20:15:52




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
I'd not be comfortable with the foam at all exposed to any kind of issue with a fire. That stuff is just not a good deal for you at all.

Mind you, one of my shop buildings is an old chicken barn with wood board interior, with sawdust poured in the cavities. That isn't to code or fire prood either. Tho I've tended to make it my non-electric work area, mostly storage.

The exposed foam would give me the willies in a shop environment.

Your call, of course.

--->Paul

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Janicholson

10-23-2006 18:26:18




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
Not much unless they are under tension. They need to be pulled on on each end such that in the middle they would only come down 3" or so if you hung a two pound weight in the center. If this much tension would distort the roof, then that is out.

Putting the rods verticle and using them to suspend the ceiling would work, See below!!!!!

If it is possible, then welding a 1/4" bolt or ready rod chunk to the end to tension it will work. You might need to make brackets to put the other end into so that it is fastened in a way to tension it.

Most dock foam is styrene and extremely combustable!! It will meet absolutely no codes for exposed surfaces in a shop. It can be covered with a 5/8" Fire rated sheetrock ceiling that is mudded and taped to prevent fire exposure. I am not a fire inspector, but I teach classes in Codes and Regulation basics.. Take a 6" cube shaped piece of the foam and burn it. (outside because early styrene had Freon in it to make the bubbles in the foam, and the freon, when burned gives off a extremely toxic nerve gas called Phosgene Gas (Google it). The freon is composed of diclorodifloromethane. Those florine and clorine atoms are deadley.) I believe in insulation, I believe it is important to keep you around because you are a great contributor to this forum. I do believe in you, JimN

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old

10-23-2006 18:37:17




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to Janicholson, 10-23-2006 18:26:18  
Jim, this stuff it so wet right now you can't make it burn with out diesel fuel etc. put on it first. Plus in my area I have no codes to worry about at this time. My shop or at least in this area is all metal. The main frame is old mobile home frame 10-12 inch I-beams and the roof is heavy sheet metal. I figured in welding the rod to the frame and then sort of laceing it in and out of its self. I'm just wanting to know if done this way if it would hold say 500LBS or so. This foam is large, 12-14 inches thick and some si long enough that the grid would not be needed but I want to make sure if it broke it wouldn't hall on my head. LOL

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Janicholson

10-23-2006 18:47:46




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 18:37:17  
It won't stay wet forever, and it is deadley!! Putting sheetmetal, even 26 gage tin over it would make me feel better about it. My dad had a friend die from combustion gasses with foam involved. The place burned in 30 seconds. He was in a coma for 6 months. Your plan for holding it up seems like it will work. Just cover it up Please. JimN



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JimN again

10-23-2006 19:28:46




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to Janicholson, 10-23-2006 18:47:46  
I read further down the page. If the forge is in there it is a serious issue to sheet rock the styrene. JimN



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old

10-23-2006 19:39:55




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to JimN again, 10-23-2006 19:28:46  
Forge will be in the old part of the building which is all wood. My shop was made from tow buildings sort of or should I say it started out as a wood building and I added on to it. The foam will be at least 10 feet from any thing hot I.E. the stove pipe. I also figured I would put some old peg board under the foam so as it will not be so fire could get to it right off the bat. If I had the sheet metal I might do it as you say but I don't and I also don't have the $$ to buy sheet metal. The wood stove I have in my shop will hold a 4 foot piece of wood about 12 inches in diameter so it burns a lot of wood and I jsut want to stay warm and maybe save a lot of wood doing so.

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Janicholson

10-23-2006 19:48:03




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 19:39:55  
Thanks for the reply, 10 feet and pegboard make me feel more comfortable with it. Spray trim cement and turkey baking (thick)aluminum foil would be even better, and reflect vast amounts of heat! JimN



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old

10-23-2006 19:54:00




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to Janicholson, 10-23-2006 19:48:03  
If I had the sheet metal I would put it under the foam but since I don't I can't. Also the way this building is and heat goes up if it did start to burn the smoke etc would go out all the holes in the roof metal and give me/us time to walk away from it. The faom would also be up abut 10 foot off the gravel floor if not higher. Right now I have maybe $200 in this building and its about a 30X40 building most of it is built from scrap stuff form over the years. The older part of it was built new from oak lumber by my dad and back when it was built I think he said he apyed something like $200 for all the lumber

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NC Wayne

10-23-2006 17:46:51




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to old, 10-23-2006 17:35:55  
Don't know what kind of weight what your wanting to do might withstand but here's what we've did in dad's shop for comparison. He got 4x12 sheets of the 1/2 thick foil sided insulation. We put them straight up, with nothing extra except whee a piece ran short or something, to the bottom of the trusses which were spaced 36"OC. We used the 1-3/4 long nails with the large plastic button heads with about 4 or 5 going into every place the sheet touched. So far it has withstood everything except for the shop cats getting into a fight toward the outside edge of a few of the pieces. Man would I liked to have been standing there to see the look on their faces when they came through..LOL Based on the way this has faired what your doing ought to work great provided you use button head nails or something equivilent, large enough to prevent them from pulling through. Good luck.

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old

10-23-2006 18:30:16




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 Re: How much weight will it hold in reply to NC Wayne, 10-23-2006 17:46:51  
The rods will be welded to the main frame of the shop. This area of my shop is ALL steel frame and metal roof. Main frame is old mobile home frame so the I-beams are 10 inches tall. In places its cross braced with othe mobile home frame so I know for the most part this thing will hold up a lot of wieght just wanting to know if a grid work of 1/4 inch rod would hold say 500lbs, maybe more.

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