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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

8volt/6volt battery

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n8terry

10-30-2006 21:23:37




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I was checking on getting an 8 volt battery for my tractor today. I was hoping that it would help it start better. I discovered that the 8 volt had about 100 less cca than the same brand 6 volt.

Can someone explain what the advantage of an 8 volt would be with less cranking amps? Dumb me, I thought the more voltage = more cranking amps.

thanks




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Leroy

10-31-2006 18:43:35




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
Have been using 8 volt batteries for over 30 years, never a problen with them carging to capacity and never any problem with points burning, in fact points seem to last longer and will speed up cranking speed. Had engines that would not start on the 6 but started easy on the 8 volt. I am sold on them.



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B-maniac

10-31-2006 17:45:15




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
Assuming you have read all the other replys,I have one more option to your tractor starting better on 6 volts. It's an old trick from the high compression, hot running world of muscle cars. This assumes that your tractor is a coil/distributor ignition system. Simply wire in a toggle switch in the negative side of the coil. With switch in "off" position,start turning the engine over. It will turn over faster because it isn't trying to fire yet. Once it turns 4 or 5 times and the cranking speed is up,then switch the toggle to on and it will take right off. It not only lets the engine turn faster when cold,but also gives it a chance to get the fuel/air mixture moving correctly before it fires. If you don't believe it try it the easy way before you go to the trouble of wireing it all up. Disconnect the neg coil wire,have someone crank it and then connect it once cranking fast.Good luck.

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ken in texas

10-31-2006 12:27:30




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
The 12 volt ststem works great and I always used the 6 volt starter without any problems.Since it spins faster it starts the engine faster and does not over heat the starter.Just my experence.



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alan bane

10-31-2006 09:12:07




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
I bought my first tractor 25 years ago and it was a Farmall Super C and it was a 6 vott system with an 8 volt battery. About 5 hours after using the tractor the coil got so hot that it melted. I had the tractor switched over to 12 volt and that solved all the problems.It's a little hard on the starter but what the heck.



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John T

10-31-2006 08:23:56




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
Terry, as far as "advantages" of an 8 volt batery, at that higher voltage it takes less amps to expend the same watts in the starter as a 6 volt battery. Therefore, you may get by with an even lower CCA rated battery at a higher voltage. The more lead n acid n plates (usually corresponds to most weight) in the battery with the more resultant CCA or Amp/Hrs the better she can crank REGARDLESS of what battery you use.

HOWEVER Im NOT a fan of the 8 volt system as the batteries are more rare n expensive plus (depends on type of charging system regulation) you may not keep the battery fully charged quite as well. It"s obviously true they have the capability to crank the starter motor faster which can improve starting, but I still see it as a band aid approcah for a hard to start tractor. If one insisits on converting voltages, Id go ahead n convert to the more standard 12 volts n be done with it. Also at 8 volts unless you add some external series ignition ballast, the points will burn up a bit quicker and a 6 volt coil could run on the warm side.

At 6 volts you can improve cranking if you use 00 gauge battery n starter n ground cables also.

John T

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old

10-31-2006 08:13:38




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
At best an 8volt battery is a bandade fix for other problem, plus they also make more problems in the long run. One problem they make is have you ever seen a battery charger that has an 8 volt setting?? Nope I don't think they even make one. If it will not start on 6 volts it either has a problem or its in need of engine work. Why not just bite the bullet and fix the problems or, switch to a 12 volt system and be done with the problems. Just my $0.02 worth

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Way Up Here

10-31-2006 07:24:29




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
Well, I'll put in my 2 cents on this. A 6 volt battery should work well and start most of your stuff well BUT only if you have proper sized battery cables, all your connections are clean and tight, and the wiring and electrical system is in good shape. Also, the starter HAS to have a good ground, clean the starter and it's mounting location on the tractor with sandpaper where steel to steel contact is made, that'll make a big difference in itself as well as making sure the starter (inside) is working properly. That would include the ignition system as well be it magneto or battery ignition. As for winter, take the 6V battery inside, a warm 6V battery has a lot of power compared to a cold one believe me. I don't see the reason for going to 8V batterys, they are hard to find and expensive and in my opinion, not necessary. Now if you insist on going 12V, then convert to an alternator and go that way, but 8V just doesn't make sense to me.

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jdemaris

10-31-2006 06:06:43




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 CCA may not matter in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
The cold cranking amp rating may, or may not have any affect on how well your tractor starts/cranks. The #1 issue that will determine how fast your engine cranks it the voltage when cranking. That is, more or less, determined by battery size versus starter demand. The bigger the battery, the higher your cranking voltage will be. Most 12 volt systems are designed to crank at 9.5-10 volts, and most 6 volt systems are designed to crank at 4.5 volts. If the battery size is increased in any system, cranking speed also increases as long as there is rise in voltage under load. My point is - e.g. - if the 8 volt battery is able to maintain 6 volts at cranking, and your old 6 volt battery only maintains 4.5 volts at cranking - then the 8 volt will crank it over faster - even though it has a lower CCA rating. When you are looking at batteries - to buy - a general rule of thumb is - to look at the weight. That because some companies - will use the same amount of material to make a 6, 8, or 12 volt battery - they just use smaller cells and thinner plates as the voltage goes up. Batteries are just boxes with little batteries hooked in series.
For example - Interstate 6 volt 575 CCA battery weighs 33 lbs. Same physical size battery in 8 volts is 525 CCA and 31 lbs, and the 12 volt is 525 CCA and 34 lbs. To maintain the same physical sizes the cells get smaller as voltage goes up. Many small 6 volt tractors will crank faster with an 8 volt battery - but I've never found it to be worth the bother and expense. Since 8 volt batteries are oddities - they are expensive. 12 volt batteries are always the best buy. Yes, most 6 volt charging systems can be turned up enough to just barely charge an 8 volt battery properly - but if you care about good cranking and expense - 12 volt is a better deal all around. Or - if you really want to be cheap? I've got several 6 volt tractors - that will never start when it's 20 below zero with the 6 volt battery. But - for winter - I unhook the charging systems and stick in a 12 volt battery for the winter. But - I don't have lights on them and ignition is by magneto.

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big jt

10-30-2006 22:53:14




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
I'll take a stab at this one.

The power measure with electricity is measured in WATTS. To figure the wattage of a application multiply the AMPS by the VOLTS.

The batteries you are considering are about the same physical size. Probably about the same wattage. However to increase the voltage the amps will go down.

I would however suggest that before you buy the 8 volt battery check your wireing. Many people (in the past myself also) neglect the other things and stuff in a higher volt bat. Things to check; battery cables should be 0 or 00 smaller ones won't cut it, check your connections make sure they are clean and making good contact star washers help here also.

hth

jt

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davpal

10-30-2006 21:27:14




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to n8terry, 10-30-2006 21:23:37  
Dad just put an 8 volt in his farmall super M and it made a pretty big difference in the cranking speed. He just told me he did that yesterday and was out cranking it up today. Said it works great.



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RAB

10-30-2006 22:42:13




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 Re: 8volt/6volt battery in reply to davpal, 10-30-2006 21:27:14  
Not quite as simple as that. When it does not recharge fully from the 6 volt reglator/generator, the gains will soon disappear.
the battery will not last as long as design and bulbs, although brighter, will not last as long. Coil will run hotter. Points will carry more current.
Need to make all the appropriate changes and look at the +s and -s over the longer time-frame.
Lok at it this way. He could have fitted a 12v battery and starting would be so much better today, but..... bulbs blowing,... no charge,... coil burned.... See what I mean?
RAB

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