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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob

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Richard H.

11-20-2006 07:01:31




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The original post is in the link below. The only thing I could come up with in town yesterday was the temp. sensor. That was the fuel problem so I time it, purrs like a kitten, button it all up and open the shop doors to get rid of my Pain .... and it won"t start. Acts like it has 12 to 1 pistons in it. The scanner indicates a MAP sensor problem before this which I"m thinkin tells the control module where to advance the timing to. All I have is a Chiltons manual and it is not much help. Thanks, Richard

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Janicholson

11-20-2006 11:51:20




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-20-2006 07:01:31  
I had this same timing issue on a GM unit three months ago it turned out to be the throttle position module that was giving wrong info to the CPU and when connected changed the timing out of the operating range. Just more obfuscation, JimN



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Richard H.

11-20-2006 12:17:23




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Janicholson, 11-20-2006 11:51:20  
Jim, that sounds about right or possible , it changes the timing and then gets strange about whether to dump any fuel or not. Is there a way to test this module with a meter, that is if I can find it? Richard



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bradk

11-20-2006 10:49:51




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-20-2006 07:01:31  
Timing too far advanced.You probably didn't unplug the bypass wire before setting timing.



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Richard H.

11-20-2006 11:16:17




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to bradk, 11-20-2006 10:49:51  
Brad the by-pass connector is laying right in front of the TBI for easy access. I believe that when it is reconnected things are going haywire. Richard



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bradk

11-20-2006 16:58:18




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-20-2006 11:16:17  
What colors are the wire for the by-pass?
Just wondering if we're on the same page.



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Bob

11-20-2006 21:32:28




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to bradk, 11-20-2006 16:58:18  
I wonder if he is disconnecting a single wire, or a multiple-pin connector???



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Richard H.

11-21-2006 05:56:15




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Bob, 11-20-2006 21:32:28  
It is a two pin connector, the wires come out of the harness to the coon and right back in. Also with this disconnected the tach in the dash stops working.



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bradk

11-21-2006 06:03:48




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-21-2006 05:56:15  
Bingo!
Richard,there's the problem.
You're disconnecting the wrong connector.The one you want will be close to the distributor, and be a ONE wire connector tan in color with a black tracer line.
Made me wonder when ya said it was in front of the TBI.~brad



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Richard H.

11-21-2006 07:28:57




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to bradk, 11-21-2006 06:03:48  
Brad this is a HEI with external coil and it has a 2 pin and a 4 pin conn. at the dist. I will gleefully go out and look for this one wire. The 2 pin conn. I was using is the only way I could get the timing right before shut down. Also it is probable the conn. I"m using is actually one wire if it is a loop thru a switch or sensor as part of an I.O circuit. IMHO this would not let the cpu tell the ign control module what the timing should be until it is reconnected. I will post back and let all know how this comes out. Richard

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Richard H.

11-21-2006 10:56:18




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 Bradk in reply to Richard H., 11-21-2006 07:28:57  
Well I looked and it is a connector with a white wire AND a tan with black strip wire in front of the TBI. Thanks, Richard



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Bob

11-20-2006 07:24:49




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-20-2006 07:01:31  
Is the MAP sensor connected up... both wiring connector, and vacuum line, following the emissions diagram? Have you disconnected the battery to clear the code, and them does it come up again? (The MAP code MAY have NOTHING to do with starting, or it MAY be significant IF the sensor is not plugged in, the wiring is mucked up, or the sensor is whacked out.)

If won't start 'cause of fighting the starter, due to early ignition timing, retard the timing 'til it will start.

Then, following the procedure on the emissions decal, unplug the "set timing" connector, set the timing with a timing light, shut it down, connect the "set timing" connector back up, and see where that gets you.

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Richard H.

11-20-2006 11:10:33




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  Well dang it Bob in reply to Bob, 11-20-2006 07:24:49  
Ok I did this again "Then, following the procedure on the emissions decal, unplug the "set timing" connector, set the timing with a timing light, shut it down, connect the "set timing" connector back up, and see where that gets you." As you said. Doing that the timing is set to 0 deg and I have 22lbs of vacuum. Shut it down , do the above and go to start it and the timing is a mile off. Sooo.., something is telling the control module to advance the the timing. Could I have put the distributor back together wrong? You have to take out the shaft to put in the pick-up coil which means the magnetic ring also to do this. In my terms this is a proximity switch set-up. The pick-up coil is cut dry as far as fit and has a little black dot on it. The mag ring has a tiny stamped dot on it also and I aligned them up when the ring went back on. Right, wrong?,does it matter? Sheeez this fun.. Richard

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Allan In NE

11-20-2006 07:21:15




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Richard H., 11-20-2006 07:01:31  
Richard,

Maybe you have a problem upstream of the diagnostic tree and coding. Maybe that car is lying to ya.

The worst GM nightmare I ever ran into was on a little car about like you are working on.

Darned thing had been to every garage in a 300 mile radius. Nobody could figure the thing out. Just wouldn't run on more than a couple of cylinders and was very sparadic. Sometimes okay, other times, the rascal wouldn't even pull itself.

I fought it for a week before I finally ran the numbers. The silly thing had the wrong ECM in it. It had originally been a california car and needed the federal emmsions ECM.

Dropped the correct EMC in the dude and it ran like a new one. :>)

Allan

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Richard H.

11-20-2006 07:37:57




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 Re: OT-1991 Olds revisited - Bob in reply to Allan In NE, 11-20-2006 07:21:15  
Allen the only thing we have ever done to this sled is replace the water pump here in Ind. For what it is worth it"s not a small car, just short of a limo. It does have me wondering if the ign Contol Module they sold me is the right one. I would much rather be wrenchin on my tractor than keep on throwin parts at this thing. Richard



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Bob

11-20-2006 07:28:19




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 California? in reply to Allan In NE, 11-20-2006 07:21:15  
OK, ALLAN, now suppose you tell us how the car knew it was no longer in California, and now needed a non-California 'puter??? ;-)



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Allan In NE

11-20-2006 08:03:31




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 Re: California? in reply to Bob, 11-20-2006 07:28:19  
Pretty sure it was Norwegian. :>)

Allan



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Richard H.

11-20-2006 07:53:37




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 Re: California? in reply to Bob, 11-20-2006 07:28:19  
Thanks, now I can go out and think of things in my head about how I would know I was"nt in California any more. That will keep a smile on my face.



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