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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T Reclosing a road

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37 chief

01-04-2007 18:42:31




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Years ago My Dad put up a barrier on a dirt county road behind our farm it was in place 15 years. This was a favorite place for hot rodders to make dust. The road was less than 1/4 mi long, a paved road was only a block away this was just a short cut.A sewer line was put in down the road, and the barrier was removed. We are now in the city, and the city will not allow us to reinstall the barrier. Does any one know if there is any law saying since the barrier was in place for 15 years can be put back? this is in Calif,other states may be the same. thanks for any info Stan

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jdemaris

01-05-2007 10:58:13




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 Qualified Abandonment in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
Once again - I am only familiar with the statutes in New York and Michigan. But - in New York and Michigan a town certainly CAN keep a road open without maintaining it. Legally it's called a "qualified abandonment." Once done, it preserves all rights for the public to keep on using the road - but the town no longer has to spend a penny on it - ever. In your case? I don't even know who actually owns the property where the road is. Probably not the town - but maybe. Check the tax-maps. If someone else owns the property, you fenced it for years, they demanded you remove it, you refused - then things would be a bit different.

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JT

01-05-2007 09:00:00




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
You might check with the county/city road commisioner and find out if the "road" is actually a road. If it is a dirt road, it might have not been a commisioned road and may be an easement or something similar, and people started using it for a shortcut. If your dad closed a public road, I'm sure the sh## would have hit the fan a long time ago.



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Mike (WA)

01-05-2007 08:19:34




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
In most jurisdictions one cannot adversely possess government property- so the fact that your dad successfully closed the road for 15 years simply meant nobody cared, and it didn't give any right to re-close it later. You need to go through the "vacation" process, as others have noted.



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Mattlt

01-05-2007 04:52:41




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
I'm sure a few passes periodically with the disk or field cultivator would keep the traffic to a minimum ;-)

I'm with JD on this one - if the city doesn't want to block it off, they need to maintain it. Unless, like here in the People's Republic of Minnesota, where we have Minimum Maintenance Roads, that are posted with signs that say "travel at your own risk." The sign probably cost more than the maintenance would have.

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noncompos

01-04-2007 22:49:59




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
Removing the barrier (assuming it was a complete barrier and no one used any part of the shortcut roadway from either end from it's connections with the public road system) probably--repeat, probably--lost any ability to show the road was unused and unnecessary. Putting the sewer down the road gave the County or City an interest in keeping it open. It's highly unlikely anyone can maintain a barrier if the City doesn't want one. A possibility is a vacation of the road ( vacating a road means terminating any public and private right to travel over it) with the exception of an easement for the sewer line, but expect the City to prefer the road as is, now that their sewer line is in it. You need to discuss your situation with everyone who's land underlies the road area (County roads are usually just road easements; an easement is the right to use someones land for particular purposes, such as roadway or utilities, not the actual ownership of the land underlying the road area; Counties/Cities usually have blanket agreements with utility companies, granting the right to run utilities along all county roads/city streets). If all owners agree to vacation, then you need to talk to a local real estate or land use atty for advice. It can be quite complicated, and it's not the sort of thing that can be covered in one of these posts. Good luck.

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John T

01-05-2007 12:27:22




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to noncompos, 01-04-2007 22:49:59  
Couldnt agree more, what the city or county wants they will likely get n win unless but probaly even if he spends a ton, remember Judge Souters latest opinion where private land was "taken" NOT fior public but other private use HMMMMM MMMMM

Where and whats ur practice anyway??? You a farmer n tractor nut also ??? e mail me jmn50@msn.com ??

John T



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JD9295

01-04-2007 21:31:40




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
If your now in the city and the city wants it open THEY have to maintain the road. If they dont maintain it be at the city council meeting every time they meet, they will either rock/chip and seal it or close it again.
Had almost identical situation with my step grandpa, they got tire of hearing me b!tch and sealed it, actually worked out better for me, didnt have to buy any more rock



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Walt Davies

01-04-2007 20:33:58




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
If it was an abandoned county road and was completely on your property then you should have the right to close or remove it. But it better be all on your property or you will have a neighbor to contend with. First find out if the county has abandoned it then look at the property lines if its not on your property at all forget it, if its on yours and your neighbors then talk it over with them.
Also talk to a property rights lawyer they usely can help a lot with little or no cost if you just set down and and talk things over.
Walt

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IBorange in Tx

01-04-2007 19:07:51




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
If the road use to be in the country, you have to file with the county commissioner and then it is reviewed by the commissioner's court. That is the process in TX. BTDT. Its just a real pain in the..... but the only way that I know of.
Good Luck.....



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Tim Shultz

01-04-2007 18:50:55




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 Re: O/T Reclosing a road in reply to 37 chief, 01-04-2007 18:42:31  
you would be sued right real quick here in Iniana if ya' tried a stunt like that.. dunno about any where else.. Tim Shultz



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