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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

4010 electrical system

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rlweller

01-14-2007 11:47:11




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I have an electrical drain on my 4010 JD. I purchased this 4010 Diesel (1963)at an auction this past summer - around July. I used it several days to cut hay using a disc mower. In the summer, I noticed what appeared to be a "weak" battary, but it always started. This winter when the weather got cold (as low as the 10 degree F. but generally about 30 degrees) the battary would not turn over the starter - just kind of clicked. I had the battaries tested and found that one of the battaries was bad, got it replaced with a new one and fully charged the other one (which was 13 months old). It fired right up. I didn"t run it long, say 30 or 40 minutes, and did not use the lights. Then I let it sit a week, went back to the farm and tried to start it - unfortunately, I got the same "clicking" I previously experienced. The battries were dead.

So,l know I have a drain somewhere, but where? Someone told me it could be that the altnator went bad, but another guy said that he doubted that would cause the battery to drain. Another guy said it might be that the ignition switch (this is one of those "spring loaded" keyed switches, not like the 4020"s which have a switch to turn on the power and a separate black starter button) has a short in it (I can test it with an ohm meter).

Before I start checking various problems, I thought I would see if there is anyone out there that has experinced a similar problem and could offer some suggestions on how to isolate where the problem rests.

And, does anyone know of an internet site to order a new ignition key switch?

I"d appreciate any help. Thanks, Rick

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KYfarm

01-15-2007 06:41:31




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
I "had" a 4010, inherited it with the farm, past tenant decided he needed to buy it with my g'mom's money. got rid of it because of extreme amount of constant repairs, first problem I had was exactly what you say. It is a 24 volt system and the only good way to fix it is as described below, switch to a 12 volt system with alternator. That'll do it.



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Bob

01-15-2007 07:05:11




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to KYfarm, 01-15-2007 06:41:31  
All that is needed to make it work is to get a wiring diagram, take a little time to understand it, and then put everything back to "as-original", and make any needed repairs.

90% of the problems with these systems are "owner-induced" by monkeying around with them without ANY understanding of how they work.

I'll bet over half I've ever seen had the battery locations/polarity changed by "blems" changing batteries over the years, without paying ANY attention as to which way the old ones were connected up. That's where the trouble often STARTS. Add 40 years of minumum maintenance, and it's easy to see why a little "tune up" is in order.

It takes a GOOD 12-Volt starter and batteries to spin a COLD engine as well as a mediocre 24-Volt system does on these old machines, although I understand folks are having better luck with going to GEAR REDUCTION 12-Volt starters that have become available in these later years.

I have a 4020 that is seldom used, and it is still 24-Volts. Sometimes, it may sit without being started for 6 months, or more. A couple of years ago, I put 2 "float chargers" on it, one on each battery, and I plug them in if the tractor is going to be unused for a while. They don't use any more electricity than an electric clock, and extend battery life by YEARS.

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Gerald J.

01-15-2007 08:48:38




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to Bob, 01-15-2007 07:05:11  
There is one fundamental problem with the 4010/4020 24 volt system and that is that the generator only puts out 10 amps. That means it takes HOURS to recharge from any start. These days these tractors are most often used as utility tractors with short operating times. Too short to keep the batteries charged.

Then depending on the load balance to keep the batteries charged equally is a problem. The charging system could be reference to ground with regulation of both voltages with respect to ground and then the loads out of balance would not charge the batteries unequally. This would be easy with an alternator, difficult with a generator.

Gerald J.

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Kklobru

01-14-2007 19:46:26




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
I have found that replacing only one of the two batteries can be a problem. The older one is weak and it drains the new one down. On our tractors I always replace BOTH batteries at the same time. Costly but in the long run I'm farther ahead.



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4010guy

01-14-2007 17:48:01




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
You got the biggest piece of junk known to mankind there! Nothing worse than a internally grounded 24 volt system. I threw out all of mine and bought 12 volt starters and put on 12 alternators and a very small amount of rewiring and you will never regret it. It will save you a lot of $$$ over time,,,And a lot of head akes to.



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Donnie Baker

01-14-2007 15:59:42




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
Not for sure but ain't the 4010's a 24 volt system? If so they are prone to be headaches, I gotta go



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Bob

01-14-2007 12:18:25




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
A book could be written on this! Conductive dirt, debris or brush carbon in the starter, generator (or alternator, if converted), voltage regulator, or ignition switch can slowly drain the battery.

Also, if there is wet dirt under the operator's platform, and the battery cables have any damage, that can contribute to draining the batteries.

If it is set up "as-original" the RH battery has it's (-) side grounded to the tractor chassis. It's (+) terminal is connected to a stud in the engine side of the starter "belly", keeping the starter's internals at 12-Volts all the time. Also, the generator's internals are "HOT" all the ime, too. That's where the current drain usually occurs. TYPICALLY, this is the battery that drains while sitting unused.

If you disconnect that battery's (+) cable between uses, you should be able to get through the cold weather without the battery draining, and then throughly check out the starter and charging system in better weather!

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430WLPG

01-14-2007 12:14:59




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 Re: 4010 electrical system in reply to rlweller, 01-14-2007 11:47:11  
unhook the battery ground cable and take atest light hook one end to the ground cable and touch the other end to the batt. post if there is a drain it will light the light and if it does start unhooking stuff until it goes out. I would unplug the alt. first.



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