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Pipeline Question

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jmh

01-27-2007 10:32:08




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There is a 36" high pressure LPG pipeline crossing through our part of N.Texas. It will cross our land for a little over a mile. This is prime land for development (housing). Anyone know the going rate for something like this? Also being told it will be covered by at least 36" of cover, this don't seem deep enough to me. What do you think?




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Dean Barker

01-29-2007 13:12:00




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
I have an 80 acre field that is crossed by two high pressure pipelines. One is a 12 inch and one is a 36 inch. The 36 inch is covered with a minimum of 6 feet of dirt and they paid up to $70 per foot. That was in 1999. Should be more than that now.



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cannonball

01-28-2007 05:11:40




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
If it comes through your property, set the depth you want... remember they will come the way they want, so be sure to get all you can without going to court. the contractor will work with you if he needs something, other wise you can make sure he don't get one foot off the r o w.. they had to bore under creeks on my father place would not let them cut banks..i also made sure that the contract agreement is for one line only and no taps for other lines to tie in on your property...get legal help on contract..a land owner still has lots of rights, but the pipeline company don't want you to know...worked for e--on for 24 years on natural gas pipeline...


MAY GOD BLESS THE USA

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Hal/WA

01-27-2007 20:41:45




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
About 12 or13 years ago, the area utility ran a high pressure gas line down our road, to add to the natural gas supply for the South side of Spokane and the suburban area. The line is about 6 inches in diameter, made of heavy steel, with welded joints. We were told that the line might carry as much as about 800 lbs of pressure. It runs down one side of the gravel road and is buried about 4 feet below the surface.

Our road has a number of houses on it, and about half of the homeowners wanted to hook up to the natural gas from the new pipeling. Initially, this was done with a bunch of small regulator stations that handle 1 or 2 houses each. But this required that the high pressure line be tapped many times, which they decided wasn't the best idea. So a couple of years later, they dug up the road again and put in a second line, this one made of somewhat flexible plastic. Then they again dug up the small regulator stations and hooked the piping to the new line. The new line is about 3 feet deep and is fed by one much larger regulator station. If I remember right, the new, much lower pressure line is right over the high pressure line.

When the company was first installing the high pressure line, I had suggested to them that they install a low pressure line in the same ditch, to avoid the expense of excavating twice. They said that they couldn't do that because the contract had already been agreed to, but they thought it was a great idea in an area that was being developed in acreages. I was later told that in future contracts, they would consider adding the second line.

Some of the neighbors were fairly concerned about the high pressure line being so close, since if it broke or leaked, the volume of gas it could release could produce a terrific fire. Well, nothing bad has ever happened, and vehicles drive over the pipeline all the time. I would be concerned if I saw an unauthorized person digging with a backhoe in the area where the pipeline is, but other than that, I think it is pretty safe, protected by 4 feet of dirt and roadbed.

If I was confronted with the FACT that a pipeline was going to cross my land (since I really probably would have no choice in the matter, due to eminent domain!), I would try to have them locate the line in such a way that it would be where I could build a road for future development. I also would negotiate the right to build that road, or even that the pipeline company build a decent gravel road over it. If I was planning to develop the ground for housing fairly soon, I also would suggest that they bury a low pressure line in the same ditch, and plan to sell you and your future buyers natural gas on a retail basis.

About 50 years ago, a huge natural gas pipeline that sends gas from Canada to California went through our area, a couple of miles from my place. Some time later, they again dug things up, and put in 2 more pipes parallel to the original one. These are about 3 feet in diameter, and I have never heard what the pressure they have is, but the volume must be fantastic. For the most part these pipes are under farmland, and aside from the times the company was installing the pipelines, the farmland has remained in production. They must have done a good job when they replaced the topsoil, because I can't see much difference in the crops over the pipelines compared to a couple hundred feet on either side. But I think that the pipeline is quite a bit deeper than 3 feet. And the farmers know where the pipelines are. It doesn't seem to be any problem to them at all.

I never heard what the landowners were paid for the large pipelines to pass under their land. I am guessing that it wasn't a huge amount, since the arrangements were done so long ago. But I bet they got some more money when the area was reexcavated for the additional pipes. And probably for the crop loss that year. After that, since the pipelines don't seem to be any trouble, it would seem that it would just be gravy to the landowner.

I hope your experience with the pipeline is as good as my neighbors have had. And I hope you can work a deal to your advantage, if you plan on developing your property. Good luck!

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Janicholson

01-27-2007 20:26:04




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
Be very sure to have a tap put in the line for gas to the property. Believe me you will be the last place without gas. My father has a 22" 900psi main 145' from his rural home in Indiana. They tapped it (while pressurized) with a lance that was exploded into the 3/4" thick tube (I was impressed, but stood back 500 feet! The tap should be modest cost. You will pay for some regulators, but it is way less than all other current fossil based energy. JimN

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noncompos

01-27-2007 16:53:40




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
Giving up prime development land isn"t quite the same thing as producing fields or land that has little chance of productive use or development, and even tho they just want an easement you"re giving it up for any hope of building on it. Just off the top of my head consider: how much buildable space you"ll lose, not just because of the pipeline building restrictions but from city/county/state restrictions (if any) AND the people who have no intention of living next to or near a hi-pressure pipeline; whether your terrain would require any additional necessary slope/embankment areas and/or any access rights over adjacent lands (often in the "routine clauses" of the easement document). If treed area watch for "danger trees" rights, whereby gas co can cut trees that might fall/blow down onto valving or pumping installations. But the bottom line is: you should not only talk to anyone you can along the pipeline route to see what they"ve been told/offered, but then get legal advice and, ideally, representation. Good luck.

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kyhayman

01-27-2007 14:39:57




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
$1000 + $30 a foot for a 50 foot easement.



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Ron in Indiana

01-27-2007 13:57:59




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
federal regs say that a high psi gas pipeline MUST be 3ft min deep and correctly marked.

They came thru my area checking pipeline right of ways for cover on the line and to see if it was marked. They hand dug to the line and checked to see how deep it was. This was about a year ago.



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Blackhole49

01-27-2007 13:52:36




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
I bought our 3 acres in MI 22 years ago. It all ready had a 36" medium pressure line on it with a 66' easment. In 1968 they paid the owner $65.00 to cross 1000' of undevolped land. When they put a second 36" main in the same easment 8 years ago, they paid me $6,500.00 for the new 66'X 550' easment + $3,250.00 for an additional 66' work space + $4,500.00 for the 100 6' blue spruce that were planted in the work space. Plus, I was able to keep the trees, but thats another story.

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Bill in Colo

01-27-2007 13:21:10




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
I me a call, I went thru this during the past 18 months. I may be able to help you. I now have 13000ft of 24" @ 2000+ psi.Call after 6 pm or before 9 am mst. 970 878 4786



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1936

01-27-2007 12:53:31




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
Luckyest day was when the pipe went west of the farm. Was a river crossing on the next farm. Bluff across from our farm moved the line to a flat river crossing. Lots of oil change due river crossing on the cat's. Oil on the ground. Cut a notch into the river bottom field to float a barge. That 150 feet belongs for the most part to the the pipe line. Line has been back and installed a above ground valve near the river and other work. Was impressive to see all the welders and machines cutting across the field and hills of Iowa. Twenty four inch deep. If you dig in a post a line inspector will on site.

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Ray

01-27-2007 12:05:26




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 Re: Pipeline Question in reply to jmh, 01-27-2007 10:32:08  
They went through my farm about 10 yeras ago with an 8 inch,200 pound line for about a mile.I think we got around $8000 then.Your basically selling the ground the pipeline goes through,
because you can never use it again,only for farming.They usually want a construction easement of 150 ft or so to do the work,and a 50 ft from then on,so you loose a 50ft strip through your property for ever.They also can come in anytime of the year and dig down to the pipline to make a connection.Nothing will grow for a few years after there done either,so you need to figure that into the price.There are also restrictions on how close you can build to a pipeline,so you loose some more space.The main thing is don't believe what they tell you,check it out yourself.They will promise you everything,
and when the job is done you'll never see them again.I think mine is down about 4 ft.

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