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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

gas prices vs. diesel

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MoMike

07-24-2007 04:36:53




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My question is if gas prices are determined by supply and demand, i.e refinery shutdowns, crude oil costs, etc. then when gas in my area, SW MO, goes from 2.89 a week and a half ago, to 3.19 the end of last week to 2.79 this morning, how come diesel stayed the same? !!




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LenND

07-24-2007 13:34:34




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
If you want a supply and demand example-how about this one. About 15 or more years ago diesel was real cheap priced then all of a sudden all faerm tractors started coming out with it, so did big rigs. And guess what else, everybody HAD TO HAVE a diesel pickup. When every driver bought the diesel pickup the fuel prices started going up and then we wonder why.



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dej(jed)

07-24-2007 10:00:17




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
Heck I am a chemist and I own and run a fuels lab here in Pa. We test fuels and lubes everyday from multiple refineries. There is no added cost in the production of one over the other. We get the same price changes that you guys do. There is no rhyme or reason to why these fluctuations occur. Simply put they do whatever the He?? they want with the prices. It is kind of a PR(Public Relations) deal. Appease the masses for a while and then rob them a little more.

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MN Scott

07-24-2007 06:33:46




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
Funny thing is last year they were doing the same thing with diesel prices and gas prices remained steady. Early this spring they set diesel fuel prices around here at $2.80 and they have stayed about the same all summer. The gas prices have been swinging from $2.70 to $3.30 all summer. Wanna bet the diesel prices will be wild next summer and gas prices will be stable?



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ldj

07-24-2007 06:11:26




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
I am not taking up for the oil companies. Look what they have to do to to get it out of the ground and what it cost, get it to the refinery and on and on. Yet you go to buy gas, then go inside and pay more per gallon for water than you did your gas. Heck water even cost more than a Coke and I never heard anyone complain about the price of water. The whole dang world is crazy. Another example is printer ink. How in the world could printer ink cost that much?

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MMB

07-24-2007 06:04:51




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
I'm not really answering your question because I don't know the real answer. But I did get an explanation just this past weekend from an ex-chemist at a refinery as to why diesel is cheaper than gas (usually) in the first place and historically has always been cheaper. One of the main reasons is that gasoline costs the refinery much more to produce. Diesel is a very basic and non-complicated fuel as far as the process to make it as well as the additives that are added. Gasoline is more difficult to produce from crude oil and has a lot more additives for anti-knock, weather conditions, and all sorts of other things too. Anyways, that's a major factor contributing to the fact that diesel is cheaper than gas, at least according to him.

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Coloken

07-24-2007 05:26:54




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
Station on SW corner of block is 2.94..station on SE corner is 3.14. 20 cents Less than block apart but people still buy there.



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john in la

07-24-2007 05:25:54




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
Because the price of diesel is also set by supply and demand.
Just because the demand for gas goes up does not mean that diesel changed. This is why diesel prices change at the start of winter and does not effect gas; heating oil prices affect the diesel price.

The price that a station pays for gas or diesel has very little to do with production cost or the price of oil. Yes they will not sell it at a loss; but the stock market controls the price. You can watch the stock market during the day and predict the change in the wholesale price that will come out that afternoon.

The price of gas and diesel sold on the wholesale level changes daily. Sometimes more than that in a volatile market and is figured on the thousand of a cent. It use to be that the wholesale price came out in the afternoon and the price changed at midnight. Now the price changes at 6pm for changes in the market and then again at midnight.

A station will most times eat the cost difference of all these changes rather than changing the pumps every day; and mostly because his street price is set by the market also. A lot of times a station on one side of the street may be making .07 a gallon while the guy across the street is making .15 a gallon. The guy making .15 is not going to come down a penny as long as he is the same street price as the guy across the street.

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VADAVE

07-24-2007 08:58:33




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to john in la, 07-24-2007 05:25:54  
Your right supply and demand enter into the price. The problem is the oil companies are messing with supply.



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Gary in TX

07-24-2007 05:19:50




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
Supply and demand are just a couple of words that the oil companies use to justify taking us to the cleaners as far as gas prices go. They are nothing but a bunch of crooks. They are rapeing the country and they need to held accountable. Of course you will remember that this all didn't start going this way till someone got elected in the White House????? I have tried to start some ideas on getting the word out too the oil companies but no one seems to want to try to do something about it. I guess everyone just likes taking it in the rear?

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JOHN HARMON

07-24-2007 13:06:40




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to Gary in TX, 07-24-2007 05:19:50  
At least you do not have to wait in line to buy Fuel for your Truck and Car like we did in 1974.



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gene bender

07-24-2007 10:25:27




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to Gary in TX, 07-24-2007 05:19:50  
Why do people blame the oil companies for the prices when crude and raw gas is bought and sold on the board of trade.



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Kevin (FL)

07-24-2007 07:56:56




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to Gary in TX, 07-24-2007 05:19:50  
Gary,

Supply & demand is the basis for our economic system--have you ever heard what people pay for the latest gaming console for their teenage kids? Or what people pay for expensive import (and domestic) autos/trucks? Or, what about what people pay for a cup of "designer" coffee?

The US has to import about 60% of the crude oil needed to meet domestic demand. The crude oil price is set by world market factors of which the US has little if any control (other than ceasing all demand). Domestic crude production costs may or may not be lower than foreign production costs depending on drilling location, depth of water and other environmental conditions. The bottom line is that the oil companies have to buy most of the crude needed from foreign sources and the oil companies can't set the world price.

It could be argued that the oil companies could charge less for domestically produced oil but would a farmer sell his corn locally for $2.50/bushel if a foreign broker was offering $3.50/bushel?

Regarding the selling price of gas, the oil companies make pennies per gallon producing gasoline, yet the federal state and local government taxes add an average of 46 cents per gallon paid by the consumer.

To say that the gas prices of total are strictly due to who's in the white house is quite a stretch. For a little history lesson, the gas price per gallon at the start of Jimmie Carter's term was about 75 cents. When he left office it was $1.50.

And finally, I was in Italy back in 1991 and back then we were paying about $4.00 per gallon for our rental vehicles.

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gene bender

07-24-2007 10:30:09




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to Kevin (FL), 07-24-2007 07:56:56  
Say KEVIN in FLA its nice to see someone who understands the truth about the refineres when we use it as fast as they can make it it just creates a demand if we quit using so much the prices will drop as everything does.



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Kevin (FL)

07-24-2007 11:16:47




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to gene bender, 07-24-2007 10:30:09  
Roger on the usage factor. On our roadtrips, I've been running 65 on the interstates. Seems like I'm a slowpoke though--we get passed regularly by folks running 80-85 mph....



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cj3b_jeep

07-24-2007 05:07:09




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to MoMike, 07-24-2007 04:36:53  
I saw that too and wondered the same thing. I saw gas for $2.59 this morning, with oil prices in the mid 70's a barrel, it should be $3.00.



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john in la

07-24-2007 05:36:36




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to cj3b_jeep, 07-24-2007 05:07:09  
You have to also consider it is getting near the end of the month. Some suppliers may have a excess of product to move by playing the market all month and being on the high side of the price.

A supplier has to worry about several things that also affect price on a local level. They have a allotted amount of tank space. With gas ordered days in advance and already on the way in the pipe line they have to have room for this gas even if it means selling at a loss. They also have to meet their allotment amount each month or risk loosing tank storage space to someone else.

In other words if you own rights to store 10,000 barrels in a loading rack tank and only move 5000 barrels this month your allotment space will be cut.

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J. Kerry

07-24-2007 06:09:09




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to john in la, 07-24-2007 05:36:36  
Gary in TX, you're pathetically out of touch. To blame gas prices on any one person(president) is just lame. Crude oil prices are set on the world market, NOT within our borders or by our leaders. The biggest reason for the increase in crude is the increased usage by China. Their economy is growing so fast and at this point have no concern for environmental issues, that they are now the biggest consumer of oil in the world. Also, even at $3.00+ per gallon, the U.S. continues to enjoy the lowest gas prices in the world. Most European countries are around $6.00+ per gallon. I don't like paying $3.00 a gallon either and yet I, like everyone else still drives everywhere increasing the demand. If it makes you feel better to pick a politician and place sole blame for everything on them then go ahead, but you look pretty foolish to everyone else.

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Jimmy King

07-24-2007 11:31:20




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to J. Kerry, 07-24-2007 06:09:09  
When you talk about the European Countries paying $6.00 a gallon remember the reason is they pay 10 times the tax on gas we do.



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Paul from MN

07-24-2007 07:19:28




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to J. Kerry, 07-24-2007 06:09:09  
Hey, next time before you tell someone they are "pathetically out of touch" you might want to check YOUR OWN FACTS.

You said that China was the worlds largerst consumer of oil. China consumes 6,534,000 bbl per day. That is a heck of a lot of oil. However, since the US consumes 20,730,000 bbl per day it makes you look both hypocritical and pathetically out of touch.



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J. Kerry

07-24-2007 12:54:02




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 Re: gas prices vs. diesel in reply to Paul from MN, 07-24-2007 07:19:28  
Paul, you're right, I meant to say they were the largest consumer in the world next to us. As in "competing for the oil supply". Of course I wasn't talking to you anyway or calling you pathetic however the way you have thrown yourself into the conversation shows that you are indeed pathetic and perhaps a little lonely. Now, go back to your room in your parents basement and maybe Mommy will bring you some warm cookies.

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