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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Point Gap

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Dalton S.

12-22-2007 09:45:53




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What should the point gap be set at on a Massey Harris 44-6? Thanks in advace.




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DiyDave

12-22-2007 14:31:48




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
One matchbook cover, more or less. Works every time!



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jdemaris

12-22-2007 10:38:02




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
I see a lot of variations here in the posts. My Massey Harris book shows ignition point gap at .020" with the Continental 6 cylinder engine in the 44-6 - with a FM6-B mag or Autolite distrib.

As to the eletronic conversions? They work great when they work - and if they burn out you're screwed unless you saved your old parts - or - are willing to wait. That because you're not going to find repair parts locally.

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buickanddeere

12-22-2007 20:38:41




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to jdemaris, 12-22-2007 10:38:02  
There are more old tractors sputtering or stopped from burned or crusted over points. Than would ever be stopped via failed electronics. If the installer doesn't get the polarity backwards and if the electronics last their 1st hour. They are going to outlast you and your tractor. This "I'll be able to get her going again if she has points instead of those danged fool electronics" is an urban & rural legend.

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jdemaris

12-23-2007 06:21:47




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 Urban Legends ?? in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2007 20:38:41  
Perhaps an "urban legend", but being so does not make it true, or un-true. Urban Legend connotes a belief that can indeed be based on fact - or can be pure fantasy.

One case in point - reality-based. I had to pick up a 1970 MGB and drive it 400 miles. The engine was recently rebuilt, several mods made - including removal of the Lucas breaker-point ignition. A breakerless kit was put in, using a magnetic pickup and reluctor wheel, a high energy spark amplifier, etc. Worked fine. Not Petronix as far as I know - but that doesn't matter much.
I've seen breakerless kits, come and go for 40 years - under many brand-names. I got half-way home - and the car died - right in the middle of the Interstate. No spark. Dead as a doornail and no replacement parts available anywhere nearby. I checked the only things I could - power getting to the module, no wires broken, etc. It was dead. Well, the car was loaded with spare parts - and I rumaged through and found the old breaker-plate with the points still on it, etc. That was lucky. Within half-and-hour, I installed the old parts, closed the spark-plug gaps down to .030", eliminated the electronic conversion, and drove the rest of the way home. Not urban legend - fact.

Another example. We camp on a island every year for two weeks - several miles from shore-land. Boat-access only (obviously). My 1970 outboard quit out in the middle of the lake. Engine is a 105 horse Chrysler. It had been updated with an electronic breakerless conversion along with a capacitive-discharge amplifier. This was the second time it failed - but the last time it happened when docked. I was dead in the water. But, since the last failure, I had - in my on-board tool box, the original breaker-plate, points, condenser, and a standard 12 volt ignition coil. I also had an extra little 2 horse outboard, but it could not overcome the wind. Also had a set of four standard spark plugs - since the high-energy system used special plugs with no ground-electrodes and a huge gap. Working on the water, I got it going with the old parts- and have used it that way ever since. That was 20 years ago - and the boat runs ever bit as well with the old breaker-point system.

In regard to old tractors you hear "sputtering" from igntion systems that need service? So? It's pretty easy to do and in tractors, those parts last a long, long time. My Ford 4000 backhoe has them, so does my Deere 1010, four of my Case Vacs and DCs, so does my Cletrac OC3, and so do several of my Stihl chainsaws. None of them "sputter" as you put it, and I rarely have to do anything, to any of them. Sometimes if a machine has sat all winter, and I go to start it in the spring, I have to pull the cap and scrape the oxidation off the points - and make sure they are opening and closing. Pretty easy to do. One more point. I have two dealers in my area that sell Petronix systems. I checked with both, and asked if they stock any spare parts - in case of a failure. The answer from both was "no."

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36 coupe

12-23-2007 06:11:45




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2007 20:38:41  
Cost my friend 300.00 when his electronic ignition quit on the road with tow and replacment.My old ford car broke a point spring,cost me 4 bucks.My chevy pick up quit in the drive way and Ive talked with a fellow who was on his 4th Ford module.My Ford tractor is on year 15 on a set of points.My JD has had one set of new points in 40 years.



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buickanddeere

12-23-2007 11:33:43




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to 36 coupe, 12-23-2007 06:11:45  
If points are so reliable and trouble free. Why are engine manufactures using electronic systems? I remember as a kid how many vehicles wouldn't start or were hard starters and booster cables were a way of life. So were vehicles abandoned on roads and parking lots because they either quit or wouldn't start. More vehicles on the road than ever and certainly driven farther. Stalled and stopped vehicles for reasons other than being out of fuel are a rarety rather than common place. Most reasons I see for electronic ignition failures is the electrical illiterate who uses a 6V 1.6ohm coil without a ballast resisitor and the new electronic modual on a 12V system. Well duh, 8 amps through circuits built for 4 amps is going to fail,

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36 coupe

12-23-2007 14:52:41




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2007 11:33:43  
Ford has had plenty of ss ignition failures and has lawsuits pending against them.



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36 coupe

12-23-2007 14:31:08




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to buickanddeere, 12-23-2007 11:33:43  
Car makers are loading new cars with expensive junk.Power windows ,electric door locks, cruise controls air conditioning etc .All crap to boost the cost of the car or truck.Most people can troubleshoot a point system, when a so called electronic ignition fails very few can fix the problem.When I have hay down I need repair parts right now,not next week.I need equipment I can fix myself.The thing that bothers me about El ignitions is this.There is less than 5.00 worth of parts in a blob of epoxy in one of these so called systems.You can buy a solid state ign for a lawn mower for 8.00.They were used in B&S engines when the cam wore to the point where it could no longer open the points.Early ss systems used a fine wire pickup coil that failed often.I started in electronics in 1950 and I dont want any transistors or diodes in my tractor.I use a lot of diodes and scrs repairing fence chargers. I buy them in 50 lots.

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buickanddeere

12-24-2007 07:28:28




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to 36 coupe, 12-23-2007 14:31:08  
If people don't want the options they can order a vehicle without them. Still with solid state ignitions vs. points. There are far far fewer failures per mile with electronics than points. AS for people suing Ford? Any excuse will do in the land of greedy people wanting easy money



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36 coupe

12-24-2007 15:21:05




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to buickanddeere, 12-24-2007 07:28:28  
Type in Ford ignition problems on a search.



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buickanddeere

12-24-2007 18:20:19




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to 36 coupe, 12-24-2007 15:21:05  
Seems to be the only one with a run of crummy parts besides GMC with some distributer trigger circuit troubles in the early 1990's. If the electronic are built to spec with quality control. They will last the life of the vehicle. You can't say that about points. And there has been some batches of points that have fallen apart, springs break or burned to a crisp due to no having a decent silver contact layer. Quality control problems can hit any manufactured part.

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Two dogs

12-22-2007 10:17:36




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
I agree with buickanddeere. Go with the pertronix. I changed mine last year on my 35 and am very pleased with it. TDF



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buickanddeere

12-22-2007 10:06:01




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
None. Replace the nasty old points with a Pertronix unit.



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Hoss in Maine

12-22-2007 09:59:11




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
Buddy of mine pulls with one gaps it at '018 Hoss



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Walt Davies

12-22-2007 09:55:50




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
.015 Walt



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Hoss in Maine

12-22-2007 09:54:43




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 Re: Point Gap in reply to Dalton S., 12-22-2007 09:45:53  
.018 Later Hoss



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