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Organic farming

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steve in wi

12-28-2007 10:00:34




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I'am looking into organic farming ,has anyone in wi switched over.I'am looking into MOSES just wondering what it takes for planting grain crops,oats,wheat or beans .I have access to some fields that have been sitting for 3 years so i thought this would be a good start.Thanks steve




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Tradititonal Farmer

12-28-2007 18:21:03




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
Takes a little brain work to grow organic but the the returns can be very good.Near major cities where people are concerned about the quality of their food their is a lot of demand and the prices are always better.Small market in my area sold organic tomatos this Summer for $3.99/lb and couldn't meet demand.Almost ALL farming was organic before WWII so don't let the 'can't be done' BS discourage.Lots of folks think because THEY can't do it no one can.My farm
has been in the family for several generations dating back into the 1800's and has been almost totally organic.No herbicides and few chemical pesticides ever used here. Take a subscription to Acres USA and buy the Charles Walters book
"Minerals for the Genetic Code"

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Gerald J.

12-28-2007 17:03:07




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
I've tried to get to be organic. I'm not organic. I raised twice the corn crop with lower inputs in 2007 going no till.

The problems I found were weeds. In this black dirt (central Iowa) weeds grow very well, faster than corn and beans or oats and alfalfa. Its nice to think that they can be headed off with timely cultivation. Sure 'nuf but that timely part never worked for me. Field crops tend to need to be rotary hoed two or three times at 3 day intervals starting 3 days after planting. Many years I put the planter in the shed to the sound of rain. Inches of rain in late May. That was super for getting the crop up along with all the weed seeds that plowing, disking twice and running the field cultivator once before planting brought near the surface. But it made getting into the field impossible for a couple weeks. By then it was too late for the rotary hoe, and still a little wet for the row cultivator to cut off the weeds without transplanting them to the crop rows. Then in a few more weeks the crop needs another pass with the cultivator, but I often couldn't make that pass because the late June rains made the field a quagmire.

So I raised weedy crops that yielded poorly and in the early days when my neighbor had an IH 715 or 915 combine caused many a plug of the head.

I think once or twice I may have actually made money on the crop (neglecting to pay myself for the labor) because my chemical inputs were zero, but my fuel costs were high. Now with fuel 5 or 6 times as high, glyphosate looks cheap. Carrying my home made three point sprayer across the field takes a lot less fuel than plowing, disking twice, field cultivating, rotary hoeing thrice, and cultivating twice, and leaves me with a clean field that yields twice the corn.

At least in this black dirt, weeds grow too well for mechanical cultivation to keep up. Flame weeding may be effective, if it can be done timely enough and should not take much fuel carrying the flamer across the field. But if the weeds are a day too mature the flames that don't hurt the crop, won't hurt the weeds either.

Now there is a more serious problem with crops that are not self pollenated. And that is pollen drift from GMO fields. The main selling points for organic crops are "flavor" and freedom from GMO. When corn pollen can wander miles, its folly to say an isolated corn field is GMO free when all the fields around it are GMO. So the promise of GMO free can't be achieved. And so half the reason for being organic is a lie. The seed may be GMO free and the techniques by the organic rules, but the crop likely isn't. And when the customers or brokers figure out how to check for being GMO free the crop gets rejected.

Go to the organic section of the USDA, download and read all of the regulations. Remember that organic rules are not based on science, but on the thoughts of Robert Rodale that anything which comes from the ground is safe, anything that comes through a chemical processing plant is unsafe.

Remember too that the phosphate mines are considered super fund cleanup sites, from disposing the undesired parts of natural phosphate rocks that were removed by the chemical processing.

Around here there is another problem, the only two organic P sources are manure and rock phosphate, but rock phosphate has no effect in neutral soils, only has a crop response in soils that are significantly acid. Which leaves out the dirt around here from using rock phosphate.

Gerald J.

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jeremy in NE

12-28-2007 16:44:08




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
I would assume that it is the same nationwide, but in NE it takes 3 years to be cerified. They will pay 50 an acre up to 160 acres for the 3 years to help with the transition. Otherwise they allow certain fertilizers and such. For the dollar amount you put in compared to the return I would recommend trying it. Good luck if you try it



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phillip d

12-28-2007 16:01:28




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
From all the info I have seen anyways,the input costs to be certified organic don't come even close to the returns.May be negative,but what I've seen so far.The average consumer would love to eat organic,but doesn't want to pay more for it.Some,yes,but only about 20% will pay a 100% premium for organics,none of the produce suppliers will pay 100%premium to the producer,more like 25-30% premium,looks like a win-win for the retailer at the expense of the consumer and prodcer.pd

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marlowe

12-28-2007 15:18:49




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
guy over by Larson wi. thats all organic even his cows



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IA 4320

12-28-2007 13:21:47




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 Re: organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
We are in west central Iowa and have been farming organic for several years. It does work and is one way to keep a small farm profitable. Getting a rotation that fits your area is important. We use a c-sb-c-o-alf-alf rotation. It really helps with both weed control and fertility to start with the oats year. Our yields have been 90% to better than conventional crops. Organic is more work but also pays better than conventional farming.

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fendtman

12-28-2007 13:19:32




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 Re: Organic farming steve go for it. in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
rules are 3 years without certain imputs. farmed some this year organically. lot of people dislike organic farmers. neighbor had some organic corn, sold for 9 a bushell in a semi load. as jake in iowa said, corn is easly to grow. dont like the other people discourgage you. most certifiting agency has the rules on there sites.



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james22

12-28-2007 12:07:35




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
A person whom occasionally posts on Agricultural Online and Agtalk, I think he using the post name "jake scia", reports respectable organic yields and excellent profits. I believe he has some pretty good soil. In my developmental years I had considerable experience not having chemical weed control, which required multiple cultivations coupled with walking the beans, and also pitched countless loads of hog, sheep and cattle manure. I'm not interested in going back to those days unless I could make a real good living on less than 100 acres with organic crops withstanding milk, fruit and vegetables. But you are probably are more idealistic and ambitious.

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gene bender

12-28-2007 10:43:32




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
You need to come down here around the KALONA IA area and see the mess all these smart ones trying it and see their wonderfull crops of weeds and they are using flame cults and stuff what a mess. For corn you need to plant with a wire then you can cross cultivate. This would help tons but then you cant plant over 16,000 population and settle for 75-80 bushels its that or weeds even then weeds are a problem. Organis farming takes plenty of experience and lots of old hard to find machinery.

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georgeky

12-28-2007 12:19:07




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to gene bender, 12-28-2007 10:43:32  
I don't check my corn. Don't use any herbicide at all either. I do cultivate it 2 or 3 times. Don't have much weed trouble as long as the first plowing is on time. Of course I only raise enough to feed my stock and sell a little ear corn to a couple neighbors. It is by no means organic, for I do use man made fertilizer on it. I do raise my garden organically, and weeds are a bigger problem with all that manure. Grows wonderful cabbage and maters though.

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TyTX

12-28-2007 10:23:44




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to steve in wi, 12-28-2007 10:00:34  
I'm told the process takes several years before ground can be certified "organic." Unless, of course, you can show that the ground has never had chemicals, pesticides, bear feces or mechanized exhaust fumes released over it since Noah got off the ark.

There was an "organic" farmer who was just weeks away from his certification when a misguieded (questionable) crop duster "inadvertently" sprayed his fields by "mistake." Crop duster was never charged and WAS paid for the spraying though it was maintained that he sprayed the wrong field. The farmer's suit for damages was lost.

Seems there is some mighty stiff opposition from the chemical industry.

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Brian Schmidt

12-28-2007 13:58:25




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 Re: Organic farming in reply to TyTX, 12-28-2007 10:23:44  
I wonder what the judge would think if the farmer "accidentally" sprayed roundup all over the judge"s fancy well manicured yard.



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