Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What are the negs and plus of propane

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Larry59

02-11-2008 21:19:07




Report to Moderator

I see many tractors are set up for Propane. I have never own one and been a bit scared to even think about ever buying one. But who knows! So are they harder to work on? Parts hard to find to fix motor? Dose it have more power then gas? Will the engine last longer then a gas one? Which will have more tractor value, gas or propane?




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
ken in texas

02-12-2008 11:55:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
The main reason tractors were changed to propane,in the 1950,s it was much cheaper than gas,like maybe like half as much.I recall as a kid,my dad paid something like four cents per gallon for house propane....



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
big jt

02-12-2008 08:59:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
They are not much harder to work on. Just when some of the componets are in the way.

Parts for the engine aren't much harder to find. Now parts for the carburation systems in another story. Last I knew you could get a rebuild kit for convertors from a outfit in OK but they are spendy.

Should have the same power as gas if done right. Mixing in more fuel won't help. Needs to be built with the right head or pistons so the Comp Ratio is right.

Bottom end should last longer but will have more valve problems on LP.

As far as value that just depends on supply and demand.

One thing I like about my LP's is I know the fuel will never go bad. There is a sediment that will give some problems but nothing like gasoline that has turned to varnish and made a mess of the whole fuel system.

hth

jt

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
hd6gtom

02-12-2008 08:08:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
If I remember right a factory propane engine uses a higher compression ratio to take care of the less BTU's in the propane. All of the tractors we converted in the 70's and 80's used the gas engines and to compensate we had to use a bigger regulator to provide the same hp resulting in a somewhat lower hp per hr than gas. However at that time gas was 1.00 per gal and propane was 30 cents per gal making it feasible to do. It is true the propane oil stays much cleaner than gas. I prefere a diesel because of the convienence of filling the tank.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

02-12-2008 06:34:24




Report to Moderator
 It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
There cerainly ARE some negatives. The big one is the simple fact that you get less work from a gallon of propane than you do from a gallon of diesel or gasoline. So, unless you are getting your propane dirt cheap, it's very expensive to use. I assume there some places in the midwest where is propane is more of a bargain that others - but that is the exception and not the rule.

In general, a propane engine uses almost twice the dollars worth of fuel to do the same work as a diesel, and 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 times more than with gasoline.

First - propane has less energy per gallon than gasoline or diesel

Second- propane usually cost more per gallon than gasoline or diesel

Third - an engine run on propane provides less power for reasons other than the lower fuel BTUs

Propane has 21,500 BTUs to the pound
Propane has 91,500 BUs to the gallon

Gasoline has 20,400 BTUs to the pound
Gasoline has 114,000 BTUs to the gallon

Diesel has 19,300 BTUS to the pound
Diesel has 130,000 BTUs to the gallon

Today 2/11/08 - National fuel price ranges are:

Propane $2.30 to $3.75 per gallon (residential)
Gasoline $2.98 to $3.15 per gallon (taxed)
Diesel(off road) $2.90 to $3.30 per gallon
Diesel (highway) $3.03 to $3.79 per gallon

Here are some figures on cost of running three engines doing the same work at the same power rating with the three fuels:

12,000 watt propane generator set can make 10,500 watts for 38.5 hours on a 100 gallon tank.
At $2.59 per gallon that costs $259 to run 38.5 hours, thus $6.73 per hour. At $3 per gallon it costs $7.79 per hour.

12,000 watt gasoline generator set can make 10,800 watts for 58.8 hours on a 100 gallon tank.
At $3.33 per gallon that cost $333 to run 58.8 hours, thus $5.66 per hour. At $3.10 per gallon it comes to $5.28 per hour.

12,000 watt diesel generator set can make 11,200 watts for 83 hours on a 100 gallon tank.
Farm fuel at $3.07 per gallon that costs $307 to run 83 hours, thus $3.70 per hour.
Highway diesel at $3.76 per gallon costs $376 to run 83 hours, thus $4.53 per hour.

Now - a typical farm tractor - Deere 3020
Rated in horsepower hours per gallon of fuel

Propane - 55 horse rated at 8.46 HHG
Gasoline - 64 horse rated at 10.3 HHG
Diesel - 65 horse rated at 12.7 HHG

A road driven pickup truck - 2000 Ford F150 4WD
5.4 liter engine

Propane - 10 MPG city, 14 MPG highway
Gasoline - 13 MPG city, 18 MPG highway

Diesel - note that since there aren't any 1/2 diesel trucks being made - here are the specs on a 1990 1/2 ton 4WD Chevy with a 6.2 liter diesel
15 MPG city, 20 MPG highway

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Texasmark

02-12-2008 16:34:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to jdemaris, 02-12-2008 06:34:24  
Totally agree on the work output (lack thereof) and consumption of Propane. Second it is a real problem to refill in the summer. Third you have to drag the nurse tank around with you. Fourth propane is costing the same per gallon as gasoline here now. Fifth my JD 4020 propane tractor was a bear to start if it was hot and you tried to restart it. Sixth in filling you have gas and sulphur (added to the tank so that you can smell it for safety) stink all over everything...don't wanna be smoking if you smoke..... . Seventh..... Eighth.....

Do I like propane vehicles? You bet! Now about that Florida swamp land you wanted for a residential subdivision..... .....

Mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chad Franke

02-12-2008 09:51:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to jdemaris, 02-12-2008 06:34:24  
I believe your analysis assumes same compression ratio's. LP tractors normally had higher CR since propane is 105-114 octane. Look at the Nebraska Tractor Tests and I think LP tractors burn almost the same gal/hp*hr as gas. I've never been anyplace (other than the propane exchange deals) that propane is near gas, let alone more! Right now running around $2.15 bulk fill here for propane.

Only downsides to propane tractors is the filling procedure (not tough, just more detailed) and the pain of running them out of fuel in the field (pay attention to your fuel level!).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

02-12-2008 13:05:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Nebraska Tests in reply to Chad Franke, 02-12-2008 09:51:03  
You mentioned Nebraska Tests not showing a big difference. Here are a few - and most of the factory equipped LP tractors have higher compression ratios than the gassers. The propane tractors are the worst on fuel efficiency in every test.

#739 Case 940 LPG 79.6 horse, 9.14 HHGs
#741 Case diesel 80 horse, 15.1 HHGs

#853 Deere 4020 LPG 90.4 horse, 8.95 HHGs
#1013 Deere 4020 gas 96.6 horse, 11.7 HHGs
#930 Deere 4020 diesel 94.8 horse, 15.8 HHGs

#780 Case 841C LPG 62.6 horse, 9.74 HHGs
#777 Case 841C gas 65.6 horse, 11.2 HHGs
#736 Case 831C diesel 61 horse, 14.46 HHGs

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

02-12-2008 12:34:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to Chad Franke, 02-12-2008 09:51:03  
My analysis assumes equipment especially designed for propane - like the Ford F150 especially built for it, or the factory-equipped propane gensets, or the farm tractors factory-equipped with propane.

It seems to me that some people who live in areas where propane is unsually cheap are forgetting that is the exception. Average prices last week - for bulk-fill - were: East coast - New England - $3.05 per gallon, Central Alantic - $3.03 per gallon, Lower Atlantic - $2.84 Midwest - $2.30 per gallon

As far as I know of, $1.97 per gallon for propane at bulk-rate is about the lowest in the United States right now - but . . . there also many places where bulk propane is $4.00 per gallon.

The same farmer's co-op in Kansas that is selling propane for $1.97 per gallon is selling gasoline for $3.00 per gallon and dyed #2 diesel for $2.84. So, at an area where propane is may be the cheapest in the nation - BTUs cost:

Propane = One dollar buys 46,500 BTUs of energy.
Gas - One dollar buys 38,000 BTUs of energy.
Diesel - one dollar buys 45,800 BTUs of engergy.

Here in New York, today - Propane - $3.19 per gallon bulk Gas - $3.23 per gallon reg. Diesel - $3.09 (dyed #2) That means - Propane = One dollar buys 28,700 BTUs of energy. Gas - One dollar buys 35,300 BTUs of energy. Diesel - one dollar buys 42,000 BTUs of engergy.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
wilman

02-12-2008 07:12:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to jdemaris, 02-12-2008 06:34:24  
I would like to know your sources for your information.

I have a propane tractor. It was originally a gas and was converted to LP by the original owner who lives up the road. It was their main working tractor at one time. It is very efficient to run and has the same power as a comparable gas tractor.

It is true that most of the factory LP tractors had a little less rated horse power than the factory gas tractors.

Here are my experiences from using my LP tractor and using a non lp, smaller gas tractor: A 30 lb LP cylinder loaded into my tractor (which is 7 gallons of LP) will last longer and do more work than using 7 gallons of gas in another tractor that I own that is a smaller tractor and doesn't do as much or as heavy of work. Around here,northeast Iowa, LP is cheaper than gas or diesel.

Biggest draw back to using LP is that it does take some special equipment to handle it and specialized equipment on the tractor to use it. LP burns clean and an LP tractor will start right up in the winter. I would buy another LP tractor in a heartbeat.

Wil

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Howard H.

02-12-2008 09:46:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: It usually cost a lot more to run in reply to wilman, 02-12-2008 07:12:07  

I agree with Wilman - not arguing the BTU #'s and all that, but just from sitting in the driver's seat over thousands of hours, the old LP burners (2 4020's, a 730 JD, C65 Chevy grain truck, several pickups converted over, etc, etc) seemed quite fuel efficient.

Plus, I don't know if there is much difference in talking about butane versus propane. I always called them "butane" tractors...

Of course, LP has always been cheap out here.


Howard

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dave2

02-12-2008 05:40:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
All the warehouse forklifts here on post are converted to propane and seem to do fine.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe(TX)

02-12-2008 09:36:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to dave2, 02-12-2008 05:40:23  
The reason most warehouse forklifts are propane is because the EPA and insurance companies do not like gasoline forklifts indoors.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom N OK

02-12-2008 05:34:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
I like LP tractors myself. I have run them most of my life. They burn clean, engines last longer with proper maintinace as will most tractors of course. So are they harder to work on? NO
Parts hard to find to fix motor? NO
Dose it have more power then gas? DEPENDS ON TRACTOR.
Will the engine last longer then a gas one? YES
Which will have more tractor value, gas
or propane? THIS ALSO DEPENDS ON TRACTOR, but is a good thing for me :-).

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe Pro

02-12-2008 05:11:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
LP is the way to go, We have 3 LP MM's, they start easy even in this cold, they run REAL smooth and are bout the same to service as them Gasser's. They have about the same hp as gas. Also many tractors can be converted to LP and back easily. Oil does stay clean a lot longer. Less wear on engine parts since they are so smooth. There is absolutely no neg unless you don't have access to LP.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
magg

02-12-2008 04:52:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
there are no neg. things on a LP tractor most have as much or more HP than gas ...LP never goes bad in the tank ...clean burning ...easy to start ...engine will last 5 times as long...have torn down LP tractor engines with 15000 hrs on them that had very little if any wear...LP has a small amount of lube in it that keeps things clean & slick...Marvin



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
DickL

02-12-2008 04:46:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
Much, much harder to steal when the tractor is unattended. When you shut it dowm for the night and leave it in the field and it has a 1/2 tank of fuel, when you return it still has a 1/2 tank.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY

02-12-2008 04:44:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
Oil changes are definitely less, it stays super clean a long time, exhaust fumes are pleasant compared to gas or diesel, excellent for indoor use. 850 for with 172 4 cyl., seems to have every bit as much power as a gasoline powered 172 4 cyl., it certainly does everything just the same as the gasoline version 4000 we had.

Refueling, if you are running a lot, might need to get set up with tanks at your location and have something on running gear or similar to refuel in the field, depends on the run time on the tank. Mine has 30 lb forklift tanks, so I just carry a spare and put it in the hedgerow, the tractor will always run out at the farthest point from where I put it !


Cold weather starts, I tried mine yesterday, too cold, no go, there seems to be a certain temperature where the fuel does not vaporize, think on the factory set up LP models you can start em off on vapor only and switch over, mine has an Impco vaporizor, once the coolant warms up, cold weather is not a problem, getting it started is, also think some heat and a makeshift enclosure might solve that. My friend uses a heater connected to a 20 lb tank to warm the engine compartment up.

Although that hood mounted tank is not the most pleasing thing to look at, you get used to it, if it's a working tractor, you'll soon forget it's there, no one wanted this tired 850, was for sale quite awhile, might not have been just the LP thing scaring them away, I fixed and repaired quite a bit and ironically, I've gotten 5 years of good service from it, it's a tough old tractor just like most from those years.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry59

02-12-2008 02:38:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
I see.. interesting I was wondering on them should I decide to buy one sometime. I know I run across several down south for sale in Arkansas.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RN

02-12-2008 02:02:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
some areas liked them because there was cheap propane/LP gas in the area. Engine oil stayed clean long time- oil was only changed 1/2 as much. Power down a bit-fuel energy about 85% of gasoline. Parts in areas a lot sold were available, not so available rest of country. Like propane forklifts the exhaust is cleaner and you can run in and out of buildings without choking on fumes. Fueling tanks had a few extra steps compared to gas or diesel-I had no problem following fill tank instructions. Current LP/Propane prices in most of country higher than gas- Texas and Louisiana may still be lower.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fawteen

02-12-2008 01:51:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
I seem to recall that a given engine will make more power on gasoline than propane too.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe

02-12-2008 01:09:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
Propane costs more than gasoline here.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
super99

02-12-2008 05:37:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to 36 coupe, 02-12-2008 01:09:40  
Hard to beleive propane is more than gas unless you are buying gas grill size tanks. Averages about $1/gal cheaper in western Ill. If the choice was there, I would go LP over gas in a heartbeat. Prefer diesel, thinking about LP for next tractor if I can find one. Chris



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe

02-12-2008 14:44:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to super99, 02-12-2008 05:37:11  
Friend called me today.He paid 3.39 a gallon.He runs a heater, has a tank about the size of a 55 gal barrel.All area co get the same price.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
paul

02-11-2008 21:37:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to Larry59, 02-11-2008 21:19:07  
Harder to find parts & expertise to fix.

Less power than gasoline.

Engine should last longer.

Gasoline will have more value. Most of the time.

--->Paul



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ToddLevi

02-12-2008 18:34:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to paul, 02-11-2008 21:37:55  
On a 3010 John Deere most engine parts are the same for gas or propane. I"ve been using propane john deeres for 30 years and never had a problem fixing them. My 455 lawn mower is much more complicated. My 3010 is an extremely cheap tractor to run. Just my 2 cents worth.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
magg

02-12-2008 04:54:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to paul, 02-11-2008 21:37:55  
need to pull up NEB. test & you'll find that LP has as much or more HP than gas or diesel



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
BLinWMi

02-12-2008 07:53:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: What are the negs and plus of propane in reply to magg, 02-12-2008 04:54:41  
Yea, I know on my lp tractors they are rated slightly more horse than either the gas or diesel. Granted these are just 2 cylinders but that extra horse or 2 can make a difference. As far as fuel cost, i have not seen propane meet the price of either gas or diesel in Michigan in at least 5 years.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy