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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Clearing up a matter-

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ENGINE MAN AND

02-17-2008 10:00:38




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I am 15 and am pretty good at stick welding, I am currently restoring/powerhousing a 1971 nova and i was just asking some simple questions on what would be the best combo for my 400 chevy engine. I listed some parts and a cam (cam duration and lift) and some people didnt agree and they lashed out on me. Im just trying to learn, but learning cam basics is like memorizing the dictionary. Its very difficult to learn the basics of cam and intake relation, but some combos that they listed sucked worse than mine, For one thing they were telling me to put an edelbrock performer intake manifold on which is dual plane, which almost all dual planes suck unless your building a torque engine, most of the time single planes work 100% better, or tunnel ram. So see I know some things just not everything. Sorry for any confusion relating to my experience. I did not claim and still dont claim to be an expert on anything. thanks - Caleb

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george md

02-18-2008 18:43:45




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Caleb, You did not answer you email.

george



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Hal (WA)

02-17-2008 18:42:41




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
I have read your other posts and wondered just how old you were. Now I see that you are 15, and probably a high school Freshman or Sophomore. That helps me make suggestions.

First of all, you need to decide if you are planning to drive the car in question back and for to high school, or if it is going to be a dedicated race car. A race car that is going to be competitive needs to be built for that particular class and must follow ALL the rules for that class, or else you fail tech inspection. Most race cars I have been around were miserable to drive on the street--no idle, impossible gas mileage and needing to be tinkered with every run. They also cost BIG MONEY, over and over, to keep them running and competitive.

If you have lots and lots of money, I am sure there are people who will sell you things to make your Nova powerful and fast. But if your resources are more moderate, like say you are working a part-time job at minimum wage, I would suggest that you set your sights a bit lower. It would be very possible to build a nice sounding, fairly quick Nova with what you are starting with, but you need to choose your parts carefully. Then you might end up with a car that will start every time you want it to, and also will not be so squirrely that you dare drive it in the rain.

If your Nova originally had a V8, you are halfway there. 400's are getting hard to find, and have some cooling issues. If the 400 is not in excellent condition, you might be better off trading it for a 350, since 350's are very common and CHEAP to rebuild. They also breathe pretty well with stock heads and manifolding. There are literally TONS of speed equipment out there for the small block Chevy. Watch for swap meets to hopefully make good deals on used goodies.

If I was building a small block Chevy to drive to high school and maybe once in awhile try the high school drags, I would build a 350 with flat top pistons and heads that would give me about 9.0 to 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. I would talk to the cam company tech people to see what they recommended for a mild to medium hot street cam for my application, and then buy the cam and kit that seemed to be the best, both for the money and for the job. This probably would not be the hottest cam offered. I would use headers rather than cast iron manifolds, and probably not fenderwall headers. I would use a recurved HEI for ignition.

As far as intakes go, for the street, dual plane manifolds are the way to go. Tunnel rams look cool, but everyone I know who ever tried to run one on the street ended up taking them back off. They might work OK at very high RPM's, but have lousy off-idle response and low speed performance. I have seen guys run single plane manifolds on the street, but in general they got poor gas mileage and not as good street performance as the car had before that change.

You also probably need to do some thinking about the drivetrain. I think you will be disappointed in the performance of your Nova with a Turbo350 and 3.08 rear gears. A partial fix would be to get a higher stall speed converter for the T350, but that usually will make your gas mileage go way down and produce lots more heat from the transmission. You could go to a higher number gear ratio in the rear end, but that really takes lots of gas, since you are constantly running the engine at high RPM at freeway speeds.

A kind of neat fix is to use a later overdrive automatic turbo hydro 700R4 rather than the TH350. The TH700R4 has a much lower first gear, which has the same effect on your takeoff as having the low gears in the rear end. But it is much easier on the mileage, especially with the overdrive. You have to have the throttle cable and have it adjusted correctly with the TH700R4, but otherwise it is a pretty good transmission. I think it also would require a shorter driveshaft, since the TH700R4 is longer than the TH350.

Years ago, when my buddy and I were just out of high school a few years, he bought a really nice 70 Cuda with a factory 440 and 4 speed. It ran really well stock, with quarter mile times down to about 14.0 and 100mph. But he thought it should go faster, so he started making modifications. Before he was done, he had 4.10 rear gears and a very modified, super high compression engine with a very wild cam. It was scary to ride in, because the power brakes didn't work very well and it was so loud, my buddy got several tickets for loud pipes. It also got 3 mpg and heated up if it got into a slow traffic situation. He quit driving it and a couple of years later he sold the Cuda for about half of what he had spent on hotting it up and a whole lot less than if he had left it alone. Live and Learn!

Good luck with your project. But plan to spend money and lots of it, if you decide to do a lot of modifications.

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jose bagge

02-17-2008 15:13:48




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 Caleb: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Caleb; I've been dead serious about every post I've replied to, and I have blown up more SBC ( both cheap and expensive) than most, running in everything from IMCA Modifieds with claimer motors to Craftsman Truck series stuff, plus some FAST street cars) You're overthinking a 375 HP motor, and for what you want to do, NOS is real cheap HP. You can build a great motor- but a junker with NOS, a converter and gears will blow your doors off. You can't walk down the street without tripping over small block stuff- motors will come and go in that Nova before you're done with it, so you don't have to live long with whatever engine you build now- get the car on the street. Spend some money on the converter and rear- in the end, it will pay off.

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jdemaris

02-17-2008 11:47:01




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Maybe I missed something, but there is no "correct" combination of parts unless you describe exactly how you want to drive the thing, and how much you care about overall driveability, longevity, fuel efficiency, etc. My 65 SS Chevelle with a mild 327 runs nice on pump gas at all RPMs up to 5500, and can still get 20 MPG if I baby it. I've been jerking around with SB Chevy's since the 265s were popular, and tried just about every new and "great" add-on out there - even the variable duration bleed-down lifters to make hot cams run better at low RPMs. You say the dual-plane manifolds "suck" - which is just plain rediculous. They work better than single plane manifolds for overall use - especially in a street car or truck that gets driven often at normal speeds - and not always hot rodded. By the way, I've had several 283s, and currently have two 327s with Eldebrock Performer intakes, and I like they way they work better than single plane manfifolds. Both hooked to Holley 600 single-pumpers and mild cams (what we used to call 3/4 race back in the 60s). Now, if all I cared about was street racing and all RPMs over 3000, then a single plane would be a benefit, along with a hotter cam. I had a 400 SB years back with a ram-log and 6 Rochester two-barrels - and what a touchy piece of crap that was! But, those days are over - at least for me. I prefer a rig that's based on some level of compromise and runs good fast and slow.

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george md

02-17-2008 11:25:10




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Caleb, Now that you have had your attitude adjusted, those of us that listen and don't say much might be willing to try to help. Your comment about a single plane being better than dual plane makes me think you have been listening to the drugstore racers rather than those that actually race. Single plane is great for circle track and some drag set ups , but if you are going to make a street drivable car dual plane is much better.

I have some older cam select and engine proformance programs that will educate you and select the components that you need to make an engine perform.If you are interested send me an email with a phone # and lets see how to get you a copy .

george

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Lanse

02-17-2008 10:37:12




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
heres one for ya. Along with what these guys know, YT has a truck forum. Check it out.



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RayP(MI)

02-17-2008 10:36:33




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
My advice, for what it is worth, you would do best to keep as close to stock as you can. Whenever you start trying to out engineer the guys who built it, you run on the ragged edge, and matching components which will actually give increased performance without risking poor overall performance, or outright premature failure is a crapshoot!



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I don't have a name

02-17-2008 10:29:35




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
I think your on the wrong site for high performance engine building since these guys are pretty much antique truck and tractor enthusiests and if you were bulding a truck then more torque would be just the ticket. I would suggest HotRod Magazine, perhaps send the editors of the magazine your questions. Those fellows have done it all over the years and know their stuff.



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Lanse

02-17-2008 10:20:41




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Caleb- welcome to YT. Theres some good people here, the best i know. You'll get alot of advice and you will have to decide whose to go with, trust me, i get alot restoring my "B" and have to decide whos to take. We all apoligise if we came down too hard, but i think you came on too strong. I could be wrong; we're all here to learn. Good luck on your car :-)



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Ken Crisman

02-17-2008 10:14:39




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
Hi Caleb , I'm not able to help you with all the more mechanics knowledge I have , but did you try searching the web ? I know there is sites for rebuilding Ford engines but not sure about your case . This site probably isn't the best site to get the info you need since it's more of a tractor site . But I may be wrong . I know the feelings you have about some people lashing out at you . Some of us don't know & ask for help . Some know alot & help . But then again there's some that enjoy being nasty bercause they don't have any help for you but still want to have something to say . I'm sure I'll get something nasty just from my response to you today . I wish you the best & keep an open mind & heart . Never get to where you think you have nothing more to learn , my young friend . Manuals seem to help some . God bless, Ken

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135 Fan

02-17-2008 10:12:11




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
At least you didn't post a picture of a rediculous welder cart prototype for a buzz box! That still makes me laugh. Welding since 1954 and that's the best he could come up with. Dave



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135 Fan

02-17-2008 10:07:48




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to ENGINE MAN AND WELDOR MAN, 02-17-2008 10:00:38  
None of us are experts! If we made a claim like that, just think of the backlash! We're just a bunch of BSers that don't have a clue about anything. LoL Dave



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dave guest

02-18-2008 18:16:27




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 Re: Clearing up a matter- in reply to 135 Fan, 02-17-2008 10:07:48  
When I was 15 and had car questions, I would ask different people the same thing over and over. Then I tried to filter out the right answers. They pro bably hated me or thought I was daft. I leaned a lot that way, though. Tech manuals finished it off. If I had a computer, I would probably do what you have been doing.



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