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Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters

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Texasmark

03-01-2008 14:43:45

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Was a blog on here the other day about this subject. I happen to be in my Ford manual today and it said just a sort of thing. "At 50 hours, retorque the head and readjust the lifters with the engine warm after an overhaul." It also said to put the head gasket on dry with no sealer or other preparation.

I took exception to this. I use Kopper (head gasket) Koat, do not retorque and do not readjust.

I have a new tractor with 100 hrs I just put on it. No where in the data, nor no conversations with the selling dealer told me that the engine has to be "tweaked" after a little break-in (50 hrs).

Not only that, I never had a new car/truck back to the dealer at 50 hrs for a head torque tweak (lifters were hydraulic so they would obviously be exempt).

So why, in all their mighty technical insight, would service manuals of yesteryear suggest what I said? Doesn"t make sense to me and I"m not about to do it.

My 2c

Mark

So what is the mentality

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olddog

03-02-2008 04:24:30

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

Difference in materials.
Cast iron heads on cast blocks held with steel bolts. When you are torquing bolts to a spec, you are actually torquing them to a certain stretch point. After a few thermal cycles, some WILL relax, especially where some are different lengths. Also, the underside of the head never quite fits flat down on the surface, so there there is some galling involved, but probably not equally. Newer engines are alum. on cast, alum. on alum. etc. I think they are better designed to eliminate headbolt stretch. (In most cases).

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olddog

03-02-2008 04:33:11

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to olddog, 03-02-2008 04:24:30

couple clarifications...
meant to say underside of the headBOLT and
prolly should've said "accomodate" instead of "eliminate"

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2x4

03-01-2008 21:17:36

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

It's aluminum heads that need to be re-torqued. Since tractors don't have'em unless you've dropped a racing engine into them, we don't usually need to bother unless there is a leak. Older cast iron heads would need to be. The rest of them are right, modern stuff doesn't usually need to be re-torqued.

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trucker40

03-01-2008 22:11:23

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to 2x4, 03-01-2008 21:17:36

No you are wrong.There are 2 types of head gaskets,and all head gaskets wont be hurt by retorqueing.I dont care what engine you build threads can jam,you might get tired and go get a cup of coffee and not torque some,there can be anything go wrong the first time,and retorqueing them eliminates that.Every time I retorque a head,cast,aluminum,whatever,at least some of the bolts in the middle of the head will be loose.

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Texasmark

03-03-2008 06:26:06

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to trucker40, 03-01-2008 22:11:23

I agree that you can miss some and other things of the such. I usually torque mine, let it sit overnight and come back the next morning and hit it again. Other thing is that I buff all bolt heads, of importance, and apply a lubricant/sealer so that the torque is actually the bolt stretch as indended, rather than friction in the thread interface.

Other thing that doesn"t make sense is that an overhaul is accomplished with seasoned components. New engine metals are green. One would expect a new engine to wiggle more than an old one but apparently they don"t.

Mark

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guido

03-03-2008 12:10:45

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-03-2008 06:26:06

Hello TEXASMARK.
I have worked mostly on diesel engines, and the torque specifications for dry threads are different then the torque specification for lubed threads. Lubed threads are usually torqued about 10% less then dry threads. As for retorque is concerned, just following the specs is all I have ever done.

Guido.

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2x4

03-02-2008 00:21:49

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to trucker40, 03-01-2008 22:11:23

I'm relying on what several professional engine rebuilders tell me and its worked for me. But its to each his own

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trucker40

03-01-2008 16:32:26

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

There are head gaskets nowdays that dont need retorqued.They have been around a long time.There are still head gaskets that need to be retorqued.I dont know what the difference is but the old ones are cheaper to buy.I dont know if the old ones are better or not but its a good idea to retorque them no matter which one they are.You dont need to put anything except maybe silver paint on a head gasket.Copper coat probly wont hurt it,but its better to use nothing.The worst time when you coat the gasket with something is when you put the head on,makes it easy to slip out of place.The new gaskets have sealer made in them if I remember right.

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Don L C

03-01-2008 16:31:50

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

A Back in 1957 I stoped to visit a friend aworking at a small Ford dealer..... he was retorqueing the heads and going over the engine..... he said they did this to every one they sold..... you might like to know.....

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Texasmark

03-03-2008 06:32:05

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Don L C, 03-01-2008 16:31:50

Well, that's the rest of the story. Back then, you could see the engine and get to things, like on a flat head Ford V8 or 6.

In today's engines you can't even see the engine when you lift the hood.

Can you imagine what kind of a mess it would be at the dealerships if every car sold had to have it's heads tweaked at 50 hrs. I don't even want to think about it.

My first new car was a '64 Rambler American, 6 cylinder OHV. They didn't tweak it.

Mark

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Don L C

03-01-2008 16:31:36

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

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Red Dave

03-01-2008 15:07:48

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

Last couple of headgaskets I put on had marked right on the gasket "sealer and retorque required".

I just went by what the gasket maker specified.

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RCP

03-01-2008 14:58:12

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Re: Retorqing the heads and readjusting the lifters in reply to Texasmark, 03-01-2008 14:43:45

There is a major difference in sealing and bolting technology on engines designed 50 years ago and today. Today's designs make use of elastomer sealing rings aroung oil and water passages that are not on old engines, in addition the bolting on todays engines are typically tighten to yield this makes the bolted joint much less susceptable to gasket relaxation. All that being said it is your engine and you can do what you want, but on my rebuilds I always go back and retorque and reset the valve clearance.

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