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CHEATING IN SCHOOL

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Nat

03-08-2008 11:42:35




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I was watching the news this AM and saw a segment on cheating in school. The report said the 57% of students in High School cheat. Almost all said they would if they knew they wouldn"t be caught. One of the reporters said it wasn"t too bad as it only went up 3% in the last 10 years so the news wasn"t as bad as it sounded. I don"t no about you folks, but that seems like very bad news to me. Anyone have any suggestions as to how we can change societies view of this? As long as anyone sees this as a small problem we are in trouble. I read a piece about an Indian tribe in early America that shunned anyone who broke any tribe rule, regardless of the severity of the violation, so almost no-one broke any rules. How can we get America to go along with this idea? Later, Nat

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Eric SEI

03-09-2008 20:10:15




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
I'm not going to argue that cheating is not a problem, but I will argue that much of cheating on tests is a result of laziness on the part of the teacher or the administration.

When I was in Drivers Ed, they used the same fill in the dot answer sheet the entire course. They graded by placing a template over the sheet and marking wrong answers with a red pencil. They only had like 4 templates, so after 1 week we could recognize the patterns. After all, we were just using additional parts of the same sheet each day. Surely they could see the problem with this. But it was easy for them.

Now anybody who has taken math at Purdue should remember how they do finals. We had finals in the Hall of Music (seats 6,000) and were scattered out. Nobody in the row in front of you, nobody in the row behind you, nobody to your left, nobody to your right. You certainly didn't copy off anyone. A high school teacher could at least spread the desks farther apart if the auditorium or cafeteria couldn't be used.

Later when I was at Iowa State I had an Econ prof who handed out extra credit questions. Each was the same problem but he used a computer to generate versions with the variables changed. To get the right answer all the calculations had to be done, copying guaranteed a wrong answer. All schools have computers that can do this now, if the teachers don't take advantage of them that is their fault.

Using a computer a teacher could even rearrange the order of the questions on each persons version of a rest. History tests obviously can't use the different variable method. If the person to your right has question 5 first, and you are starting on question 17, copying would be difficult.

Cheating on homework is hard to stop, but they will pay for it on tests. And most students will quickly see that their only choice is to prepare for the tests. It does take a little extra effort for the administration and teachers, but it can be done .

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TomTex

03-09-2008 05:58:39




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Can't have teaching without having some discipline. Teachers are not allowed to discipline rowdy children, parents nowadays will not tolerate anyone applying any level of discipline. Teachers must pass all athletes regardless of whether they have learned anything. Parents want the ball teams to be the best in the state, at all costs. Athletes can get all tuition, room, board, books and miscellaneous expenses all paid for college degree, even without learning how to read, professors give them passing grades without even requiring atendance. So WHO is cheating? everyone - teachers, parents, administrators, professors, athletes. Also shcools must try to teach mexican kids that can't read or speak english. Try doing that some time. We are headed for being a third world country. Tom

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super99

03-09-2008 04:04:18




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
My turn. Oldest daughter is smart, did well in school. In high school, she was advised to take hardest courses and pre college stuff in order to be ready to go to college after High School. They knew courses were much harder, and a B was suppose to equal an A in easier courses. A girl in her class took every easy course she could so she had straight A's and got into National honor society. NHS advisor taught harder classes and had to really fight to get my daughter into NHS because her grade point was just below requirements. Who learned more in school? First problem is parents, next one is poor teachers. There are a lot of good teachers and some bad ones, problem is, you can't get rid of the bad ones once they get tenure. 4 grade schools in our district, then they all blend together for Jr. high and HS. Jr High teachers know who will be behind because of where they went to grade school and certain teachers there. Kind of like unions everywhere, can get rid of the poor workers because they belong to union. When oldest girl started school, we moved 400 miles south and they kept moving her up in grades to keep her interested. In 3rd grade teachers wanted to move her to 5th grade math and english. We moved back to old locality and put her in school, and the teachers said she was behind the rest of the 3rd grade class there. Go figure. Chris

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Steven f/AZ

03-08-2008 20:58:13




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Just another way of looking at NCLB.

No Dentist Left Behind

My dentist is great! He sends me reminders so I don't forget checkups.
He

uses

the latest techniques based on research. He never hurts me, and I've
got

all my teeth.

When I ran into him the other day, I was eager to see if he'd heard
about

the new state program. I knew he'd think it was great.

"Did you hear about the new state program to measure effectiveness of

dentists with their young patients?" I said.

"No," he said. He didn't seem too thrilled. "How will they do

that?"

"It's quite simple," I said. "They will just count the number of

cavities each patient has at age 10, 14, and 18 and average that to

determine a

dentist's rating. Dentists will be rated as excellent, good, average,
below

average, and unsatisfactory. That way parents will know which are the
best

dentists. The plan will also encourage the less effective dentists to
get

better," I said. "Poor dentists who don't improve could lose their

licenses to practice."

"That's terrible," he said.

"What? That's not a good attitude," I said. "Don't you think we

should try to improve children's dental health in this state?"

"Sure I do," he said, "but that's not a fair way to determine

who is practicing good dentistry."

"Why not?" I said. "It makes perfect sense to me."

"Well, it's so obvious," he said. "Don't you see that dentists

don't all work with the same clientele, and that much depends on things
we

can't control? For example, I work in a rural area with a high
percentage of

patients from deprived homes, while some of my colleagues work in upper

middle-class neighborhoods. Many of the parents I work with don't bring

their children to see me until there is some kind of problem, and I
don't

get to do much preventive work. Also, many of the parents I serve let

their kids eat way too much candy from an early age, unlike more
educated

parents who understand the relationship between sugar and decay. To top
it

all off, so many of my clients have well water which is untreated and
has

no fluoride in it. Do you have any idea how much difference early use
of

fluoride can make?"

"It sounds like you're making excuses," I said. "I can't believe

that you, my dentist, would be so defensive. After all, you do a great

job, and you needn't fear a little accountability."

I am not being defensive!" he said. "My best patients are as good as

anyone's, my work is as good as anyone's, but my average cavity count
is

going to be higher than a lot of other dentists because I chose to work

where I am needed most."

"Don't' get touchy," I said.

"Touchy?" he said. His face had turned red, and from the way he was

clenching and unclenching his jaws, I was afraid he was going to damage
his

teeth. "Try furious! In a system like this, I will end up being rated

average, below average, or worse. The few educated patients I have who
see

these ratings may believe this so-called rating is an actual measure of
my

ability and proficiency as a dentist. They may leave me, and I'll be
left

with only the most needy patients. And my cavity average score will get

even worse. On top of that, how will I attract good dental hygienists
and

other excellent dentists to my practice if it is labeled below
average?"

"I think you are overreacting," I said. "'Complaining,

excuse-making and stonewalling won't improve dental health'... I am
quoting

from a leading member of the DOC," I noted.

"What's the DOC?" he asked.

"It's the Dental Oversight Committee," I said, "a group made up

of mostly lay persons to make sure dentistry in this state gets
improved"

"Spare me," he said, "I can't believe this. Reasonable people

won't buy it," he said hopefully.

The program sounded reasonable to me, so I asked, "How else would you

measure good dentistry?"

"Come watch me work," he said. "Observe my processes."

"That's too complicated, expensive and time- consuming," I said.

"Cavities are the bottom line, and you can't argue with the bottom
line.

It's an absolute measure."

"That's what I'm afraid my parents and prospective patients will think.

This can't be happening," he said despairingly.

"Now, now," I said, "don't despair. The state will help you

some."

"How?" he asked.

If you receive a poor rating, they'll send a dentist who is rated

excellent to help straighten you out," I said brightly.

"You mean," he said, "they'll send a dentist with a wealthy

clientele to show me how to work on severe juvenile dental problems
with

which I have probably had much more experience? BIG HELP!"

"There you go again," I said. "You aren't acting professionally

at all."

"You don't get it," he said. "Doing this would be like grading

schools and teachers on an average score made on a test of children's

progress with no regard to influences outside the school, the home, the

community served and stuff like that. Why would they do something so

unfair to dentists? No one would ever think of doing that to schools."

I just shook my head sadly, but he had brightened. "I'm going to write
my

representatives and senators," he said. "I'll use the school analogy.

Surely they will see the point."

He walked off with that look of hope mixed with fear and suppressed
anger

that I, a teacher, see in the mirror so often lately.

If you don't understand why educators resent the recent federal NO
CHILD

LEFT BEHIND ACT, this may help. If you do understand, you'll enjoy this

analogy, which was forwarded by John S. Taylor, Superintendent of
Schools

for the Lancaster County, PA, School District

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M Nut

03-08-2008 23:59:19




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Steven f/AZ, 03-08-2008 20:58:13  
Thanks. You summed it all up quite well for those who work in the profession and deal with those students on a daily basis.



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Janicholson

03-09-2008 05:54:30




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Walt davies, 03-08-2008 21:29:21  
Walt, I respect your technical ability, but question your opinion of the efforts of teachers. See my comments below, there is no reason to class all teachers into the same category. JimN



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Hal (WA)

03-08-2008 20:29:31




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
What do you mean by cheating? I helped friends occasionally with schoolwork, and even helped one of my buddies by sitting in such a way that he could see my test paper and copy from it. This was in a class my friend just plain couldn't have ever passed without help. It kept him eligible for playing football, which was about the only thing in life he really cared about. He probably would have dropped out of high school if he couldn't have played football. We never got caught and eventually, James got a high school diploma.

I was always a good student and school was easy for me. But I hated to waste my time on "busy work", like having to do 100 math problems, when I had mastered the concept by doing 10. So sometimes I copied the answers from someone else's paper. I suppose that was cheating, but I didn't feel a bit bad about it. I still think that "busy work" is dumb and hated classes that required that daily homework be turned in.

My Mom was a teacher in the school where I went, so I had to behave myself pretty well, since I did not want to embarrass her. My Dad was also the local Deputy Sheriff, so I didn't want to cause him grief. Doing so would NOT have been in my best interest!

In Junior High, our History teacher was also the school principal. He had a habit of leaving his teaching materials in his unlocked office, including his tests. Over time, some of the kids figured out that they could sneak into the office and get the answers to the test the teacher would give that afternoon. This went on for awhile, and all the students knew about it. I always declined to be involved, since I was worried about getting caught and also because I did just fine in History without cheating. Then one day, we were going to have a big test, like a midterm or final test. The stolen answers went around, and I saw the sheet, but again said I would not participate in cheating on the test.

Soon after the teacher passed out the test, I realized that the questions on the test paper were not the ones that corresponded to the stolen answers. I looked around and saw that a few other kids in the class were acting very worried, but most were just filling out answers as usual. I worked through the test and turned it in at the end of class. It had been a hard test, but I knew the material pretty well and thought I did OK.

The next day the teacher passed out the corrected tests. More than half of the class got extremely low scores, and a bunch of them had exactly the same answers on the multiple guess parts of the test. We spent the rest of that day being lectured on cheating, and I think that the kids who had so obviously cheated had to meet with the teacher and their parents about the problem.

I wasn't the only one who figured out that it wasn't the test that had been expected. As it happened, the guy who actually had stolen the answers managed to get a fairly decent grade, since he had done some studying. Nobody snitched him off though.

I got an A on the test, as did several other kids. I was surprised that a couple of the kids that usually did very well had been among the ones that got caught with the absolutely wrong answers-- I thought they were lots smarter than that!

Anyway that really shut down the cheating on tests that year. And I gained new respect for the teacher, who must have known what was going on for awhile before he laid the trap.

I think there will always be some cheating in school. But a teacher that is doing their job should be able to deal with it, at least during testing. It is also important for the school administration to deal harshly with students that get caught cheating and for the parents to back the school up.

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Mark - IN.

03-08-2008 19:50:18




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Ever heard the old saying, "Cheat, cheat never beat"? Well, that's not entirely true. I cheated once or twice as a kid, and got caught once or twice, and nearly beat to death for it too. Back when I was a kid, it was still legal for parents to beat you to death, then make you walk 20 miles to school in a blizzard both ways, while you're dead. Can't do that anymore.

I can think of a husband or two got caught cheating. When that happens and the wife says, "I forgive you, now just lay down and take a nap" while holding a cast iron skillet or a pair of scissors while looking at your zipper, don't do it. Not that I've got any experience in that area, and I don't, but I do have a theory or two...and don't go to sleep is one of them.

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comfortking

03-08-2008 18:34:59




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
All of this goes back to the persons that should be setting the standard for children First, parents next should be other family members followed by those who are left in charge of our children. Those left in charge is anyone from babysitters grand parents teachers political leaders pastors even television folks. As far as cheating and lieing is concerened just recall two very high profile cases of public officials lying under oath (Bill C and Mark T in the O J trial) ok for them ok for eveyone else.

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John M

03-08-2008 18:00:54




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
At least theyre not doing what 2 12 year olds got caught doing here. Not saying cheating is right, but having "relations" in the school is a bit much. What is going to happen to this world?



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wanabefarmer

03-08-2008 17:56:45




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
here in texas we had g. bush as a govnor. he gave us the tas test then he went to washington and gave us no child left behind. my daughter teaches and she spends more time training the students to take the tas test than she does teaching the basic courses. i think we need to get politicians and administrators out of the schools and let our teachers teach. take our money back from washington and at least get that group out of our schools. the the next step will be to get the state out and give the finiancing and operation of schools back to the school districts. U.D. Douglas

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Alex.C

03-08-2008 18:30:36




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to wanabefarmer, 03-08-2008 17:56:45  
Dang straight, I agree, I'm in high school and thats all we learn is how to take the T.A.K.S. test (Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills) which is the big test in Texas right now, event bigger than finals! there talking about getting rid of it but too late for me cause I graduate 2011, oh well.



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Gene-AL

03-08-2008 17:45:47




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
A clever teacher can control cheating and expose those that do (to themselves) with a little extra work. Every exam doesn't have to have identical answers to each question or even identical questions, for that matter. It doesn't take but once or twice - students learn very quckly that an attempt to cheat can leave them in a deeper hole than if they had dug their own. Lesson learned.

Calculators are a great tool. Try using a slide rule or pencil, paper and printed tables for difficult problems...
Calculators don't prohibit teaching of multiplication tables, in fact they can be a great help used in the right setting.

As to why students would attempt to cheat - that goes back to acceptable home, family, and community values, IMHO.

Teachers deserve support, not put-downs, but I'm biased. Fire them all today and tomorrow there will be even worse problems, if enough competent replacements can even be found. Who teaches new teachers, someone from another planet?

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NE IA

03-08-2008 13:08:14




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
I totaly do not understand the very educated folks that get high wages to educate our school system. It makes no diferance what store you go into you have a camera watching you, so why not at school.

Walmart sells cameras fo $35.oo that gives you a pretty clear view. Study hall students could watch the monitors and the students could be the court system. This would also stop alot of bulleying and the cost would be less that our administrators got in raises this year.

I had a teacher that used to look up the girls dresses all the time, a camera would have spotted that also.

The moral aspect has been lost, my hometown business is seldom more than a verbal agrement and a hand shake. This is not the real world nowdays.

I love kids but at a resect for small childrens saftey I do not toy with youngsters that are strangers anymore. I used to toy with little ones to see if I could get them to come to me and hold them. Nowdays if the kids trusted you the parents would not. This is unfortunate at best. Just a product of our social system.

All we can do is try to stress good behavior, by example, and I do not mean just flopping a bible in front of them. I'm poor by most standards, but my word is as good as gold I hope. These values aren't set forth as they were years ago, perhaps because we have little contact with our children, most of us do not farm, the wif has to work, and the schools, sports, churches etc keep our kids away from us in a tight bond.

Yet all said and done there are alot of excelent kids out there that we just don't hear about. So I will keep thinking on the bright side and not the dark. I'm not pure white in the youngster area, my parents would not have approved my attatude if they were fully aware of it.

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spitz

03-08-2008 13:02:54




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Fire all the teachers?? How about let the teachers do their jobs. Parents lie for their kids all the time. If teachers had the responsibilities they had 40 years ago they could do a better job. Look how it has changed over 40 years. No ADD, no 504 plans, few college requirements, less competition, teacher discipline led to parent discipline now parents get royally pizzed off if you even yell at their kid-even if they answer a CELL PHONE CALL IN CLASS AND YOU TAKE THEIR PHONE!! Trust me learning starts at home, it cant only be at school. Plus how many of you guys out of school 20-30 years had to take calculus or microbiology in school?

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bradley martin

03-08-2008 12:40:20




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Don't be surprised. Professional athletes cheat, politicians have been known to cheat, parents brag about cheating on their income taxes. Monkey see, monkey do.



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Ryan - WI

03-08-2008 12:36:17




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to tom toney, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  

Walt davies said: (quoted from post at 15:00:36 03/08/08) Fire all the teachers and administrators then hire new ones and get rid of Tenor. Next put the old desks back in and nail them to the floor in straight line. Tell the new teachers that if they want to keep their jobs the kids will have to improve by 100% each year until they reach the level that we were back in the 40/50s. Next take all calculators in schools and destroy them and then make it against the law to have one within 1 mile of any grade school. If you can get rid of guns that kill kids then why not get rid of Calculators that ruin their math skills for the rest of their lives. We had to memorize the multiplication tables to 12 in the 3rd grade in the 1940s. Ask a kid today what 2X2 is and he will reach for his calculator. I have to count all wagon loads of hay going out of a field because anyone under 40 can't do it. BOY!! I could go one forever on this subject and never get to the end of the problems. Sorry if I offended any teachers out there but just look at the kids coming out of these schools and then tell me that you are doing a good job.
I know my grammar isn't what it is was 50 years ago but I have an excuse, I will be 70 this July.
Walt


You definitely are correct. This has everything to do with the teachers and schools being at fault. Has nothing to do with morals and ethics that are taught and observed at home. Oh wait a minute...

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Gun guru

03-08-2008 12:23:42




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
The students see the corrupt politicians and corrupt business leaders and just figure: Well all the higher ups are crooked so thats the way to get to the top.



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Roy in georgia

03-08-2008 12:20:06




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
when I was in high school I had a guy looking on my test and when he got caught I got punished too failed the class for the year had to retake the course the next year wasn't even my fault but I got punished graduated one year late when I got behind trying to catch up in my senior year.



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ericl

03-08-2008 12:04:29




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
it all comes down to honesty and honor, both sorely lacking in the past 3 decades or so,now we seem to have young people believing that the "system owes them, after all they didnt ask to be born" wrong, nobody owes you anything,the whole point of being in school, isnt to just get good grades, although it certainly cant hurt, the point is to learn from the teachers so kids have the ability to provide for themselves as well as their future familys, a concept thet seems lost, some years ago there was a contest in which high school seniors were given a tape measure and told to go measure a window in the classroom they were in, 90 % couldnt accuratly read the tape! [ i could do that at the age of 8] also some teachers dont seem to able to teach their chosen subject to well these days either, but if you cheat, you lose , even if you dont get caught, by cheating you failed to learn the subject mater, and that was the whole point of the lesson, just my opinion

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Walt davies

03-08-2008 12:00:36




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Fire all the teachers and administrators then hire new ones and get rid of Tenor. Next put the old desks back in and nail them to the floor in straight line. Tell the new teachers that if they want to keep their jobs the kids will have to improve by 100% each year until they reach the level that we were back in the 40/50s. Next take all calculators in schools and destroy them and then make it against the law to have one within 1 mile of any grade school. If you can get rid of guns that kill kids then why not get rid of Calculators that ruin their math skills for the rest of their lives. We had to memorize the multiplication tables to 12 in the 3rd grade in the 1940s. Ask a kid today what 2X2 is and he will reach for his calculator. I have to count all wagon loads of hay going out of a field because anyone under 40 can't do it. BOY!! I could go one forever on this subject and never get to the end of the problems. Sorry if I offended any teachers out there but just look at the kids coming out of these schools and then tell me that you are doing a good job. I know my grammar isn't what it is was 50 years ago but I have an excuse, I will be 70 this July. Walt

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Janicholson

03-08-2008 20:16:49




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Walt davies, 03-08-2008 12:00:36  
As a Teacher Educator I applaud your willingness to consider the plight of teachers. I believe the answer may be found by having your insight highlighted by volunteering to assist in your local school district. The Technology Education department would certainly benefit from your experience and hard earned knowledge. This volunteerism would build your confidence in teachers, and the challenges they face, while allowing the students to get a breath of fresh seasoned perspective.
The calculator is used to solve math of a higher level than counting loads. Trig, geometry, and calculus are not pencil and paper constructs.
The use of a slide rule is a usable approximation, not a definitive answer. The material and processes must contain base level content, as well as the high technology processes used today, including rapid prototyping, solids modeling, CNC machining, design for manufacturing, quality assurance, and a host of other concepts.

Sons of farmers are very special and capable individuals. We were, and are experienced in ways and means that are not in the experience base of 98% of the other students.

Who would you hire to do these things? We have grave responsibility, not to abandon our mission as teachers. JimN

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Erik MN

03-08-2008 15:36:16




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Walt davies, 03-08-2008 12:00:36  
Hello Walt, As a new industrial technology teacher, I feel as though I need to respond to your post as I am sure you would if someone told you that everyone in your profession was failing at what they do and they should all be fired. First of all, I also agree there is a long ways to go before we can be satisfied with the level of education of some students upon leaving school. I also agree that there are many students that have education levels far surpassing previous generations with new options right in the middle/high school (college in school, PSEO, Project Lead The Way, etc.) While I agree completely with the basic math facts idea, they DO need to know them (it is amazing how many students can not read a ruler), there are also many other factors today that were not so in earlier times. However, there are a lot of other factors in todays education system that were not in place in the 40s. We have NCLB being pushed so hard on the whole system that it is almost impossible not to teach to the federal tests without funding the special programs that are also "federally" required. It is not our choice to teach or not teach certain items / programs. In terms of cheating, the students knew if they got in trouble in school, they would be more afraid of what would happen when they got home (like myself - even though I am only 24). Now, if you so much as look at a student wrong let alone accuse them of something such as cheating, we are now the ones that have to deal with the wrath of the parents (which I am not afraid to do). Anyway, lets just think twice before we throw out the whole system. We are doing good things trying to get the students ready for work/college/whatever they choose is the best choice for them, yet there is still a ways to go. If we are ever satisfied, we are not doing our job (in my opinion).

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Janicholson

03-08-2008 19:33:29




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Erik MN, 03-08-2008 15:36:16  
Thank you Eric, Where are you teaching?
I'm proud to have my son in High school (Apollo in St. Cloud) taking classes from teachers I have taught as students. Jim



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gene bender

03-08-2008 13:06:20




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Walt davies, 03-08-2008 12:00:36  
Atta boy WALT GREAT ANSWER



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Walt davies

03-08-2008 12:03:33




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Walt davies, 03-08-2008 12:00:36  
I wrote this before looking at what the kids wrote below it. That should pretty much answer any question that one has about todays schooling.
Walt



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eli fish

03-08-2008 11:59:46




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
I graduated in 2001 and it seemed like even the best honor roll students cheated at one time or another. It will only change when society stops glamorizing it in movies and joking about the whole topic and just saying "everybody does it" Kinda like alot of other things in the world. Schools can't stop it alone because it's very hard to stop what you can't see. It reminds me of the whole "war on terror" and "war on drugs" thing.

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Lanse

03-08-2008 11:55:56




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
Our teacher is always whining about the "copy-fest" that goes on in various classes and lunch. Im honest, i probabally wouldnt be if i couldnt get everything done in class, but i do. Regardless, alot of that happens here. 4 people got busted in science for copying-only someone copied the spanish difination out of their book then let someone elce copy off them, until 4 people had the spanish defination. No kidding.

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Copperhead

03-08-2008 11:47:25




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Nat, 03-08-2008 11:42:35  
I never did in school. I have the grades to prove it. ...and not once was I on the honor roll. :-)



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bmud

03-08-2008 12:30:47




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Copperhead, 03-08-2008 11:47:25  
I know where you guys are coming from. I am 22 and am starting graduate school and I have seen cheating at all levels since middle school. It is not right. I havent done it, I worked for my grades. But, I feel that the kids of today are a product of their environment. Yes, many are lazy...calculators, sense of entitlement, not having to learn as much....whos fault is that? It is the people who are teaching the kids who have failed as well. And I mean both the teachers and the parents. Not all. But, many students are lazy because the system lets them be. Brad

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Animal

03-08-2008 13:04:49




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to bmud, 03-08-2008 12:30:47  
Heck yes I cheated, sat next to the ugliest girl in school, she was also the smartest! I have never used diagraming sentences in my life, let alone trig, sure could have used mechanical drawing, but that class was always full, could have used a lot more math being a mechanic, but at the time all we had was what was called modern math that our teacher did not understand, what a waste! As I see it you can not teach someone a subject when their is not any interest, by the time you start high school the parents and teachers alike should know if the student is going to work with their hands or their brain, if its their hands get on with teaching them a trade that they like, if its with their brain by all means lets hit those books like we the people. This crap of cramming subjects down a students throat is just slowing down the skills of the top students and causing the cheat factor! You never have to work a day in your life if you love what your doing!!!!!

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WTH?????

03-08-2008 13:54:02




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Animal, 03-08-2008 13:04:49  
""teachers alike should know if the student is going to work with their hands or their brain,""


Are you special??? I am in the trades so I guess you could say I use my hands. But if you don't think you need a brain for it then you will always being the one with the broom in your hand.



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Animal

03-08-2008 15:21:57




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to WTH?????, 03-08-2008 13:54:02  
Can you fill a pharmacy prescription like a man that is educated to do so? If so I take it all back, but I am betting that you knew what I meant!



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Den N Ms

03-08-2008 19:10:44




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 Re: CHEATING IN SCHOOL in reply to Animal, 03-08-2008 15:21:57  
I tend to agree with you,This crap of cramming subjects down a students throat is just slowing down the skills of the top students and causing the cheat factor! You never have to work a day in your life if you love what your doing!That goes for having all the kids learning Spanish!We use english in this country.If any mexicans want to come come here they must learn english and pass a exam.



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