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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Rookie question about dual rears.

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Chris in MO

03-16-2008 11:27:43




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I know duals are installed on a tractor for reasons of traction. What other reasons would someone have for using duals? How much hp do they eat up? How do you go about installing them? Do you need special rims and what other parts are needed?

Just curious about this.....Thanks.

Christopher




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kyplowboy

03-17-2008 01:10:29




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
One thing I did not see down the list here is hillside stability. Alot of folks around here want duals for bush hog'n steep hill sides. Don't know just how much steeper of a hill they will let you go across, but they do take alot of the pucker factor out of going across a steep hill. You don't slide nearly as much.

In row-crop applications, same as every one else said. Don't compact the ground as much(flotation) and less slippage in tillage(traction). Only disadvantage I know of about them is you can not turn as sharp, most people take them off for hay use after tillage is done here.

Hope this helps.

Dave

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john in la

03-16-2008 22:01:59




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Duals are good for 3 things. Flotation; traction; and breaking axles.



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Steven f/AZ

03-17-2008 06:04:54




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to john in la, 03-16-2008 22:01:59  

john in la said: (quoted from post at 22:01:59 03/16/08) Duals are good for 3 things. Flotation; traction; and breaking axles.[/quote:0f7d08d9d3]

Pretty much every tractor that ever saw field duty in ND where I grew up had/has duals. Never heard of a broken axle in my life. I suppose if you were adding weights to the duals, along with severly uneven ground where the entire weight of the tractor was on the dual alone it's a possibility.

[quote:0f7d08d9d3="JoeBob/IN"](quoted from post at 18:46:40 03/16/08)That reminds me, most tractors are rated to pull implements at about 5 mph and above. If it can't, with the exception of the implement being the hold up, then you need a bigger horse. Look in the manual, probably in there somewhere. WOW! That took up a lot of time and space!


In the manual for our JD 4450 it clearly states not to have a maximum pull under 4 (or 4.5) mph or damage will result.

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JoeBob/IN

03-16-2008 18:46:40




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Well, on solid ground like the first tillage pass they help with flotation and traction. If you don't have alot of squirrels under the hood the traction isn't much of an issue but the flotation is. Now, in worked ground they actually use more power than singles however the flotation and traction gained probably outweighs that fact. Better to run a MFWD tractor with singles than a 2WD with duals assuming both tractors are the same basic tractor and large enough for the job.
Was told once by an older mechanic, say from the 70's and before that duals were the worst thing invented for tractors. With them suddenly a 100 horse tractor that couldn't pull an implement due to traction problems could now pull it but in a lower gear than designed to and that tore up trannys and rearends since the torque was so tremendous. That reminds me, most tractors are rated to pull implements at about 5 mph and above. If it can't, with the exception of the implement being the hold up, then you need a bigger horse. Look in the manual, probably in there somewhere. WOW! That took up a lot of time and space!

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flying belgian

03-16-2008 17:42:02




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
All good points posted below. I also like them for how they smooth the ride out. I don't need them for traction or flotation when pulling grain drill or 6 row planter but it just makes it ride soo much better.



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Hugh MacKay

03-16-2008 16:54:46




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Chris: Flotation and less soil compaction is number one. Traction will be better on loose soil, however on the graduated scale to hard road there is a point whereby singles will outpull the duals.

Tread wear is a close second. The first 1,000 hours, my IH 1066 went through a set of 20.8x38 singles. I replaced them with the same tire, except I went duals, and after 9,000 hours on 4 tires they were in better shape than the first set at 1,000 hours. Clearly I was getting excessive slippage with single tires. One thing is certain, if your going to put horse power up front, then you've got to put rubber on the ground. We don't do much farming on hard asphalt.

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JMS/.MN

03-16-2008 16:33:44




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Duals give you both, more traction and flotation. If you wanted maximum traction, you would weight the duals like the insides. No question that empty duals give more flotation in wet spots, but any tillage operation is more efficient with duals. I can"t imagine farming without them. FWD is an added plus, and oftentimes sufficient for lighter jobs like planting, but I wouldn"t consider tillage with singles. Too much slippage and fuel waste.

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triplerange

03-16-2008 15:50:43




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Another reason with the traction gained...and duals to give more traction...is less wheel slippage. Less wheel slippage = more efficiency.



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usetob

03-16-2008 15:31:34




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
I farmed in mud (rice) most of my career, believe you me duals are useless in the mud. Sometimes if it is wet enough(water in the field) you can get by with duals with 20" or 24" spacings. Front wheel assist took alot of duals out of business!



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Goose

03-16-2008 12:47:24




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
When I was farming with my 856, I was told that with certain Farmall wheels, clamp-on duals would crack the wheel. I had axle mounted duals, but that was what someone told me.

Has anyone else heard that?

Also, that 856 rocked around so much without the duals, I hated to drive it without them.



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flying belgian

03-16-2008 17:35:16




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Goose, 03-16-2008 12:47:24  
well I don't know about the wheels themselves but I had clamp ons on the 706 and broke the clamp bolts. First one side in the spring than the other side in the fall pulling anhydrous bar. same year.



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fixerupper

03-16-2008 17:17:46




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Goose, 03-16-2008 12:47:24  
Rim mounted duals kept loosening the wedge clamps on my 1086 so I got axle mounts and that solved that problem. Without duals the 1086 can only pull about 2/3 of what it can with duals in the spring when the soil is loose. If it would hit a soft spot I'd be walking home. I wouldn't even think of trying to pull the field cultivator without them. Jim



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Allan In NE

03-16-2008 12:44:20




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Chris,

Duals are mainly ran for floatation. Guess I don't know of anyone who uses 'em for "traction".

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

03-16-2008 18:24:44




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Allan In NE, 03-16-2008 12:44:20  
Allan: You use your duals for traction, and you don't even realize it. I didn't in the beginning either. I got roughly 1,000 hours out of my first 1066 tires, replaced them with exactly same tire except there were 4 of them. The tractor ran full time on duals, never had them off and after 9,000 hours they looked better than the first set did when I removed them. I guess I was getting much better traction off the duals than I expected.

I did think the tractor pulled the disk and cultivator easier with duals, truth is it probably was pulling them 10%-15% faster in same gear and same RPM.

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gene bender

03-16-2008 14:37:53




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Allan In NE, 03-16-2008 12:44:20  
Allan i guess you aint never pulled 46,000 lb load up the drive to the road. You are spoiled in the flat land.



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Chris in MO

03-16-2008 13:19:50




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Allan In NE, 03-16-2008 12:44:20  
Okay, I wasn't clear. When I said traction, I really meant getting stuck in mud, soft ground, etc.

Christopher



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Chris in MO

03-16-2008 13:24:47




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 13:19:50  
Oh I get it. I read a little further down to Steve f/AZ's post. Flotation=less soil compaction?

Christopher



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Steven f/AZ

03-16-2008 13:32:26




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 13:24:47  

Chris in MO said: (quoted from post at 13:24:47 03/16/08) Oh I get it. I read a little further down to Steve f/AZ's post. Flotation=less soil compaction?

Christopher


Yes, floatation reduces soil compaction. Less pressure per square inch when you spread it on more tread.

Also, I would say that a set of duals vs. singles will last more than twice as long as far as tread is concerned...

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Allan In NE

03-16-2008 13:26:32




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 13:24:47  
Yes Sir, for sure.

As for the "mud" thing, guess I don't know of anyone that actually farms in the mud neither.

Guess they do that sort of thing back east tho. :>)

Allan



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fixerupper

03-16-2008 12:38:17




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Another reason for running duals is stability. A lot of farmers around here leave the duals on when they spray row crops even though traction is not a problem in most cases.

Most farmers here plant row crops in 30" wide rows and the rear tires on the tractor are commomly 18" wide so there's only six inches of room between the outside of the tire and the row. The tractor HAS to stay in the middle of the row at all times. Without duals, those squishy single rear radial tires make the top-heavy tractor sway arould alot, making for a very tiring day of driving. Last year when I sprayed the beans for the second time I took the duals off to keep from damaging too much crop on the end rows, but as a result the tractor was so hard to keep between the rows that I think I did more damage by getting off the row too much. Yes, the front end is tight and aligned right.(long story, Whew) Jim

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triplerange

03-16-2008 12:51:19




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to fixerupper, 03-16-2008 12:38:17  
Dont feel bad...I have the same problem! ;-)



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buickanddeere

03-16-2008 12:06:36




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Soil compaction and crop loss with a high psi footprint with small tires. Duals have more traction on loose sandy soils. Less difference in heavy clay. Duals can render a tractor helpless in some kinds of mud and in any kind of snow or ice.



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Bill(Wis)

03-16-2008 12:01:57




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
There is a "clamp on" dual that, as the name implies, employ clamps to affix them to the inside set of tires. They are used with flange axles. If the tractor has bar axles that are long enough, then a complete wheel/tire/hub assembly is simply slipped onto the end of the axle. Another method is to use a bolt on hub for the dual. Duals are especially useful in high HP 2WD tractors in order to get all that HP to the ground. Also for flotation, as mentioned, in both soft ground conditions and for cultivating row crops with big cultivators. Downside is their increased "rolling resistance" which eats more fuel. If you don't need them in a particular situation, then you're better off removing them. For cultivating, it is common to see duals, front and rear, set to track in between the crop rows. That keeps compaction down that can be caused by the combined weight of the cultivator and the tractor and also the spray tank/s that may be carried as well, usually on the sides or front of the tractor.

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Steven f/AZ

03-16-2008 11:46:08




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
I have run our 1086 pulling the same implements on singles and with duals on. It will pull almost the same amount with or without.

One of the main purposes for duals is floatation. Less compaction makes for a better crop. We run duals in the hay fields as well as it is easier on the alfalfa.

Also, stablity - our 1086 rocks back and forth over rough ground without the duals on.

And, of course, traction.

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Lanse

03-16-2008 11:36:15




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 Re: Rookie question about dual rears. in reply to Chris in MO, 03-16-2008 11:27:43  
Im told they pot more power to the ground for better torque but thats basicially traction



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