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Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine.

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pics

03-24-2008 03:02:19

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I have a Farmall 400 that I want to use in a stationary application. I don't need 50hp. 25hp at rated RPM would be adequate. I was thinking of:

1. pulling two pistons and con-rods
2. plugging the two crankshaft journals (and hose clamping the bearings back on the empty journals)
3. removing the corresponding push rods, rocker arms, (and tappets ?)
4. running a Super H or 300 carburettor.

The two remaining pistons will have strokes 180 degrees apart. This means the firing impulses will be 180 and 540 degrees apart.

Does anyone see a problem with the uneven firing or any other aspect of the modification? Is there any advantage in which set of cylinders remains functional? 1&2, 3&4, 1&3, or 2&4. Can the con-rod/piston assemblies come out without removing the head?

No, I am not going to paint the tractor green with yellow wheels.

If Schramm made a head for this engine, I might be interested although I am not doing the modification to compress air.

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Wardner

03-24-2008 13:45:51

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

I appreciate the effort that some responders exercised in answering my engineering questions. As for the others, no I will not be considering another tractor. This 400 has a side-mounted IH/GE Electrall and it will only fit SMTA thru 660 and similar W models. The 13KW generator will not fit AC, H. SH, C, or any green crapola.

This is the same tractor that I plan to convert into an Ice Cream making and vending unit. I already have the NSF freezer chest/soda fountain combo. It will attach to a front-mounted IH fast hitch. The White Mountain ice cream salt/freezers (4 or 5 ea) will go on the rear fast hitch. The ice crusher will probably drive off a IH cotton picker power supply gearbox. Fresh hot water will be conditioned with a heat exchanger. Still looking for a nice SS or aluminum 50 gallon water tank. May run the rotating freezer paddles with compressed air as the motors can stand indefinite periods of stalling. Ya, I am looking to save fuel. Aren't we all these days? I still need 1400 RPM.

I will probably start testing the 400 with loose plugs wires on 3 and 4. I'll do more testing with 3 and 4 sparkplugs removed. It seems to me that the most efficient configuration would be to eliminate those pistons. I am somewhat worried that the crankshaft flywheel flange may fatigue and separate with extended usage.

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RAB

03-25-2008 15:28:03

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 13:45:51

Simple. Change the pulley sizes. End of problem excepting you will need to govern down the max rpm to prevent overspeed of the generator.

RAB

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Janicholson

03-24-2008 15:30:07

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 13:45:51

The Wild Ideas occur to me to do one of several things to Keep it sounding IH normal (to avoid 3000 people telling you it is broken, when it is not):
Convert to propane and use a remote tank
de sleeve the engine to run hi altitude 3" pistns and make it small that way.
Have a crank shop destroke the crank to 1/2" less stroke (requires different rods)
Convert to a SH engine and despense with changes
My Original post will actually work. JimN
JimN

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Leland

03-25-2008 00:18:58

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Janicholson, 03-24-2008 15:30:07

Why ????? ????? ? you can find a smaller tractor cheaper than trying to modify the present motor

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Janicholson

03-25-2008 10:16:34

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Leland, 03-25-2008 00:18:58

Leyland He is putting together a Display unit to make icecream and run a freezer, and do fair and display stuff. It needs only 25 or so HP, but the electroll Generator being used is only mountable on a big series IH. It will be a display system only. JimN

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RustyFarmall

03-24-2008 14:51:37

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 13:45:51

How about leaving the engine alone, and leaning out the carburetor? I'd start by turning that high speed idle adjusting screw all the way in, and then back it out just one full turn. I'll bet it is turned out anywhere from 3 to 5 turns now. You could also replace the main metering stem in the carburetor with a stem from a super H.

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MarkB_MI

03-24-2008 14:48:20

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 13:45:51

Wardner,

Thanks for the additional info. I can understand what you want to do now. Because you're driving an alternator, you need to keep the speed high regardless of load. I don't believe you will save that much fuel if you disable two cylinders, but it's worth a try.

The GM variable displacement engines, both the nefarious Cadillac 8-6-4 and the current "displacement on demand" motors, shut down cylinders by disabling the valves. I think that's the easiest route for you, and it's easy to reverse. I'm not familiar with the 400, but I assume it's an overhead valve engine. It should be reasonably easy to remove the lifters and pushrods as suggested by Johnski. You don't need to keep the valves open, though: The dead cylinders will work as big springs so that there is very little net power loss.

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buickanddeere

03-24-2008 18:05:18

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to MarkB_MI, 03-24-2008 14:48:20

It's about time you told us you need rated rpms to operate an alternator at synchronous speed. Are we supposed to read your mind? A pile of people wasted their time giving good but non applicable ideas when they were given a bum steer. Pulling two plugs and no other changes is going to blow some raw air/fuel mixture out the sparkplug holes. And draw dust and dirt into the cylinders. Not even a idea worth considering except for testing purposes. Pulling the intake pushrods and locking open the exhaust valves until they just clear the pistons is the ideal if you insist on 4-2. The two dead cylinders will stay warmer/wear less if they pump exhaust in & out. The sound will be closer to that of a four cylinder than if it was operated with the valves closed. As a previous poster mentioned something very important. If you get the coolant temps up to 220F and lean the carb out. And change out ALL the lubricants for very low viscosity synthetic winter lubricants. Efficiency will be increased more than the 4 to 2 swap. Odds are than cooling fan requires 3-4 HP to spin at rated speed. Install a much smaller fan when running at continuous low power levels. This is going to again save more fuel than a 4-2 tinkeration If running on two cylinders the engine may bog and the electric motors stall due to starting inrush current. As for the unwarranted trash talk about Green Crappola..... ..... Remember who is still in business and who went broke. And whose tractors today are purchased today by Agco & CaseIH to be reverse engineered?

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Circus

03-24-2008 10:51:59

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

It wouldn't save you a penny in fuel. I tried something not quite so drastic. I disabled 3 injectors on a six cyl. engine. It used twice the fuel.

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Tradititonal Farmer

03-24-2008 09:55:26

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Buy a B or C Allis Chalmers greatest little belt tractors ever built for their size

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Allan In NE

03-24-2008 09:24:21

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Yep,

Knock two cylinders in the head.

Then, let us know when ya get it started. If it should actually start, let us know if it will even pull itself to stay running.

Allan

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Janicholson

03-24-2008 08:50:52

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

The engine crank is not ballanced, it is dependant on the equality of the wt of the pistons and tha dynamics of motion to avoid shake. (they put both cast iron, and cast/forged aluminum pistons in them W/O changing the crank. It will have rocking couple, front to back, ballance issues, but not dramatic. With all not used parts gone, and galleries plugged to prevent oil pressure loss, I think it is just fine. (and reversible). Use the front two cylinders. It is also important to use only one insert to plug up the bearing oil holes, and a piece of gasket to prevent marring the grank where the hose clamp would hit it, the crush on the inserts will keep them loose, and there is no need for them to move.

Keep all the parts in plastic bags in a waxed box to allow reassembly when sold. JimN

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Don L C

03-24-2008 08:45:17

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

For get all that B.S.....trade the 400 for a good Farmall H..... ..... .Don

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Walt davies

03-24-2008 07:55:44

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Won't work because the engine will be out of balance and shake itself apart. You need all 4 pistons to balance it against the weights on the flywheel.
Walt

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Walt davies

03-24-2008 07:57:38

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Walt davies, 03-24-2008 07:55:44

Forgot about counter weights on crank also.
Walt

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Jerry Cent Mi

03-24-2008 05:59:45

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

We use to make air compressors out of Model A Ford Motors by using one of the cylinders for compression only. I don't remember how we did it.

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RustyFarmall

03-24-2008 05:25:00

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Why even mess with it? A 50 horsepower engine running at 1/2 its capacity will be just as fuel efficient as a 25 horsepower engine running at full capacity. Removing or disabling half of the cylinders in an engine has been tried many times over the years in an attempt to improve fuel efficiency. As far as I know, no one has ever realized the success they had hoped for.

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buickanddeere

03-24-2008 07:36:09

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to RustyFarmall, 03-24-2008 05:25:00

Running two cylinders at near 100% load IS more efficient than running four cylinders at 50% load. Rodins & Johnski are both on the right track plus the diesel theme. For applications here, the 1000rpm pto gear box on the 540 rpm pto. And run the engine at it"s most effient point where peak torque occurs.

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RodInNS

03-24-2008 05:15:19

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

I'd be looking at a step up gear box to step teh PTO speed up to 540 when the engine is running at it's torque speed, where ever that is on that engine. That's the only way you're going to save much fuel short of getting a diesel. Gear up, throttle back.

Rod

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MarkB_MI

03-24-2008 05:02:06

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Umm... it's only going to put out as much power as the load requires. True, an engine at wide open throttle is more efficient than it is at part throttle, but how much aggravation do you want to go through to save a little fuel? If you're really interested in fuel efficiency, find a diesel.

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Johnski

03-24-2008 04:46:18

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Why not pull the valve cover and remove two intake pushrods and adjust the two exhaust valves so they remain slightly open to prevent any compression? You should also remove the lifters (tappets) on the two intakes. HTH Jf

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deadeye012

03-24-2008 04:39:39

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

Just get a JD and you got the two cylinder machine if you can get it to run..

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Wardner

03-24-2008 03:06:46

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to pics, 03-24-2008 03:02:19

My computer auto-fill entered the wrong name. Should be "Wardner"

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comfortking

03-24-2008 05:10:55

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 03:06:46

Why not sell the 400 and get an H or Super C? Maybe you could find a step up gear box so you would only run the 400 at 2/3s the rated rpms.

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comfortking

03-24-2008 03:17:37

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Re: Reducing displacement on a four cylinder gas engine. in reply to Wardner, 03-24-2008 03:06:46

Why not sell the 400 and get an H or Super C? Maybe you could find a step up gear box so you would only run the 400 at 2/3s the rated rpms.

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