Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissioner.

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
doug in illinoi

05-09-2008 16:03:07




Report to Moderator

The culvert that goes under the township road at the east end of my driveway is too small and collapsed, resulting in water running accross my driveway and washing it out, then across the county road. We have a circle drive, the water then crosses the township road before it gets to my west driveway. The wife is already VERY UPSET with the damage that was done to the yard last year when they trenched the water line in. Now the commissioner wants to dig a deep ditch thru the front of my yard and leave me with one 20 ft driveway unless I buy the culverts for the second driveway. If he closes the east driveway, no way to get cars in the garage. If he closes the west driveway, no way to get to the pasture with anything bigger than a pickup. There will also be no way to get hay in the barn if he gets his way. Why can't he just put a sufficient culvert under HIS road? If he gets his way, I am honestly going to look for a different place to live and tell the gentleman I am buying this property from contract for deed that this property has been damaged through no fault of mine and no longer usable for my needs. DOUG

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Tradititonal Farmer

05-11-2008 03:46:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
First remember you're dealing with a gov't bureaucrat talk real slow and make him realize that more coffee breaks will be interrupted if he does what he wants rather than what you want.
In real terms I'd buy a 30' culvert for a farm entrance and forget it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buickanddeere

05-09-2008 21:25:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
I agree with jdemaris that actually finding what what the rules of the game are 1st is a good idea.
Next is to get the Road Super to believe he actually thought of a solution which happens to be a good deal for you.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS

05-10-2008 06:22:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to buickanddeere, 05-09-2008 21:25:07  
Now, now. Those guys think?? I watched them dig a 1500 foot ditch along side of a 10' embankment along the road here last fall. The water still runs down the hill above the road, across the road and into his neat little ditch. That took a day with a backhoe and two trucks. Half an hour with the grader would have recrowned the road and let the water run over the bank if nothing else.... Ditching the high side where it was needed was going to require a track hoe, so that would need to be done later. Yep, if ya can't do it right, do something stupid.
Thinking is not high on the list of things to do for most of these guys. Many get the job because of who they know or who the blow, not what they know, and it shows in the maintenance of our roads.
Fight with the buggers. It's the only way to get ANYTHING done. Fight them, fight them, FIGHT them.
I couldn't get a road plowed this winter until I 'explained' to them that if I couldn't haul now on frozen roads, I'd haul after breakup on thawed roads by whatever means necessary, be it a dualed 100 hp FWA tractor or a D4H. Road was plowed the next day. Sadly, that's how we have to deal with the highways department these days.

Rod

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jim H. SW-PA

05-09-2008 21:14:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
I have a similare problem here. The road past my house is a narrow asphalt state road. Pendot has been notified several times of a culvert just off the corner of my property,has collasped. They say it is on record that it was fixed a couple years ago. What is creating my problem is, I just bought my house here a year ago, and since then I have had water 3 times in my basement because of a small creek that borders my property will not flow thru it properly.The way they fixed it was to take out some dirt that had colasped and put in a smaller pipe in the inlet side. The water can be over the road on that side and the other side only running a half pipe. I called + neighbors called serveral times, They say it's on the agenda, this summer. My new neighbors say they will believe it when they see it.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Goose

05-09-2008 20:09:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
Why did the culvert collapse in the first place? Was it overloaded, by any chance?

In my neck of the woods, the county will supply and install one appropriate culvert for access to each piece of property. For any additional ones, you're on your own.

If I was you, I think I'd just go buy a culvert and quit while I was ahead. Fighting the county would cause you more expense and aggravation than the cost of a culvert.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
doug in illinois

05-09-2008 21:21:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to Goose, 05-09-2008 20:09:29  
The discharge end is a good 5 feet off the edge of the road, culvert basically exposed with maybe 2 inches of dirt over it. The road is narrow enough that wide farm equipment has to take the shoulder to miss my mail box, collapsing the culvert further. I will likely have to take a day or two off work in the VERY near future to talk with a lawyer to try and get this stopped and done right. Utility locater service has already been here today, they have posts out thru the yard marked DIG. He is on a fast track to get it done. DOUG

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JT

05-09-2008 19:43:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
The local road commisioner DOES have the last say, but if the culvert under the road is damaged, a call to the county engineer might get this resolved.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
wgm

05-09-2008 19:30:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
Culverts are cheap. Just buy them yourself and get over it. It ain't worth fighting. Otherwise you will lose in the end.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leland

05-09-2008 19:14:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
Go to the township meeting and raise he!1 in front of the whole board ,I to live in IL and our township furinishes all culverts since they are on the rightaway not private property .And since you have 2 drives already he can't change it without the boards consent



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI

05-09-2008 18:41:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
This is a battle that you are unlikely to win. And if you do win, you're likely to pay for it in the future. Bureaucrats and politicians have long memories.

Pay for the culvert and be done with it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Davis SC

05-09-2008 19:07:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-09-2008 18:41:45  
Yep, Property tax increases, a few speeding tickets, lost mail,those folks can make your life miserable and expensive. ... culverts are cheap..



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RodInNS

05-09-2008 18:30:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
The way it works here is this:
If you want an entrance onto the road, you apply for an access permit. They must approve the entrance for sight lines, etc. They spec the size pipe you need for the entrance and all other requirements for the entrance. You are responsible to install said entrance to their specifications. They want a deposit (basically a performance bond type thing) up front when the permit is issued, and it is refunded when the final inspection is done.... this is just to cover their costs if they have to make changes to bring it up to spec.

The bright side to this is that once you pay to have the entrance installed, THEY, forever more are responsible to maintain it. The size of the pipe and all other specs are also recorded on file, but basically, if they come and want to replace a 25 foot pipe with a 20 footer, you argue with them and YOU will win. I find that just about everything regarding the local highways department here now requires a fight because they will try to cheap out or dump the cost on anyone they can, every single time. Once they realize that you are more fight than a few hundred bucks of budget are worth, they give in and do what they're SUPPOSED to do.

Check your local laws and see what they are required to do, and hold them to it. Otherwise they're going to walk all over you.

Rod

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
glennster

05-09-2008 18:01:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
might be ahead just to buy the culvert. i put some new field access drives in last year, asked the road commisioner what size, told him where they were going, he said no problem, did it myself. unlike in town, a farm owns to the middle of the road, least in my county in illinois, the road has a right of way, but most of the farmers in my area maintain thier ditches, pick up junk, clean out culverts, keep things mowed.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rollie NE PA

05-09-2008 17:45:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to Jimmy King, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
Doug: I am a retired highway maintaince foreman. I don't know the laws in your area but in my county you must abide by rules that govern access to a public road.

1. You must have a permit from the agence that owns the road, local, county or state.

2. You have to have the proper sight distance.

3. You have to install the size pipe that is determined by the governing agency at your expense.

4. If you have a non functioning pipe or driveway apron it is up to the property owner to fix it.

Our engineer explains it this way. If you have a vacant piece of property what would be between your property and the road? A ditch. So if you want access to the road the responsibility becomes the property owners.

Alot of the rules are because of law suits. Example; if you have a blocked driveway pipe that permits water to run on the road and it should freeze and cause a accident then the governing agency and the property owner can be named in a law suit, with the property owner sharing in the award of damages.

I have seen newly installed driveways ripped out because the owner didn't comply with the rules.

Just my thoughts. I don't know if any of this would apply in you state.

Good Luck,

Rollie

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jdemaris

05-09-2008 17:33:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissi... in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
Such issues can be very complicated and you need a good understand of the local laws and state statutes as they pertain to public highway law.

I worked on many such issues here in New York. Here - public highway law says once a culvert has been used for 7 years for highway purposes -it's done deal, regardless of problems that come along with it. In my area, I am required to furnish the cost of materials for all culverts needed for any driveways I touch the public highway - and I own the highway! That's kind of adds insult to injury since I own the entire road - but ownership or not - it is still a public highway that runs "over" my land. The town has to install the culverts - I just have to pay for the corrugated pipe. The reality is - I don't trust the town to do it correctly and always put them in myself.

I will tell you this. You might want to find out what sort of right-of-way the town actually has - and who actually owns the road. A town must report every year - to the county government an inventory of roads. That inventory is supposed to show each road the town claims as a public highway and gives exact measurements and widths of right-of-ways. See what it says.

Also keep this in mind. Many highway supervisors claim some set footage for width - usually something like 66 feet wide - of right-of-way. Sounds fine and usually goes unchallenged. It is also often NOT true. Again - ask the town how the road became a highway. Likely they won't have a clue. Most became public highways by public use over time - not by deed. These are legally known as "highways by prescription." Technically, in most states - that means the town has no right-of-way beyond what is being used - period. No right to widen extra feet for new culverts, no rights to go in an remove trees, etc. But - many to most property owners don't know this - and subsequently many towns do whatever they want. Here in New York - once the town does anything to the road - and it goes unchallenged for 7 years - it's a done deal and can no longer be questioned.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dittmerku

05-09-2008 16:06:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT: Think I see a battle coming with my road commissione in reply to doug in illinois, 05-09-2008 16:03:07  
I hate to say it, but this is one of those times where it's best to have a good lawyer look the situation over. If they've caused flooding in your yard, you've probably got something to go with.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy