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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JRV, re: JCB 1400B not so bad news????

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Mike Hamilton

04-19-2006 06:10:35




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Big J,

I've checked all the EBAY manuals, they are ALL of the higher serial number, I have the actual JCB manual for the higher number.

There is no book available anywhaer on the web for my series of machine.

Even though my book is an authentic JCB manual, Nowhere in the book does it indicate how the piping circuit is ROUTED TO THE Valves, this is because there is no similar confuguration, as I said my machine has no unloader valve.

Let me ask a question... CAN I DEAD HEAD THE PUMP to validate the pressure or will it damage the pump?

My thought is that I isolate certain parts of the circuit by dead heading, BUT I DON'T Want to damage the pump. What do you think about this?

Thanks
Mike

ps Think I'll just buy the correct manual for my machine for the $400.

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J. Schwiebert

04-19-2006 06:28:58




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 Re: JRV, re: JCB 1400B not so bad news???? in reply to Mike Hamilton, 04-19-2006 06:10:35  
I thought you understood hydraulics!. How big is your checkbook? If you deadhead a gear pump you will split the pump or twist the drive shaft. The same is true for a vane or piston pump if is not load sense or closed center. Do you have a 5000 psi pressure gauge and an adjustable flow control in your posession?



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Mike Hamilton

04-19-2006 10:14:08




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 Re: JRV, re: JCB 1400B not so bad news???? in reply to J. Schwiebert, 04-19-2006 06:28:58  
Hmmm, Well I'm listening to others, somehow I want to isolate the rear end as I said there is p1 and p2 stages I wanted to dead head p2 which feeds the extradig valve.

I dont have an adjustable flow control valve but I do have a pressure guage, I measured this morning, off the front main valve which controls the loader and is fed by 1, I got about 500 psi when raaising the bucked idle, I got about 1200 psi while raising the bucket whaile at higher idle, the pressure jumped to 2000psi at high idle when the bucket hit the full extension point. I don't know what to conclude....

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Mike Hamilton

04-19-2006 18:00:34




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 Tuesday night update piping???? in reply to Mike Hamilton, 04-19-2006 10:14:08  
Ok, I got a quote on the actual Manual from JCB .... get this $600 Canadian, I wanted the exact manual to verify correct piping to eliminate that aspect.

Instead I found a machine near by with the same set up and have now validated the piping is correct. (remembering that when I got the machine the Extra dig was snapped in two and the entire backend was hydraulically disconnected.

I will re verify the pressure indications tomorrow. I plan to measure at medium and high rpm, during actuation and monitor what the pressure jumps to when the cylinder is fully extended and pressure going over the MRV.

I will check pressure on both the front loader (main fed from P1 side of the pump) valve and at the extra dig valve which feeds the main hoe valve body off of the P2 side of the pump.

Yes the machine needs grease, but, I have also seen the thing KICK IN!! and its like a whole different piece of equipmnet (like a new wife or something, although I wouldn't know about that). I can't say what causes the hydraulics to kick in othere that it seems to do it when the machine warms up but only on occasion.

-JRV says that the pump either works or doesn't
-Another individual indicated that there are "O" rings in the Extra dig valve (which feeds the main Hoe Valve) and if the "O" rings are gone, I will get tons of blow by I feel better now after doing the A/B piping comparision to another machine.

I'll report the pressure readings tomorrow, too dark to work, although I am keen to invest the time move closer to the problem, I think my pressure readings were off from earlier, I will validate them tomorrow. I like the Idea of the flow calculation, but, the cylinders may throuw the calculation off if the seals are a little worn... no? The point I'm trying to make is that when she kicks in it seems to have just incredible amounts of increased power, the difference is not minimal.

If JRV is correct and he worked for JCB, the pump being a gear pump is fine. I need to go with his experience on that and assume that the pump is good for now. Then I can concentrate on the pressure readings and after that, I would like to start removing valve bodies and checking them. I have already completely disassembled and checked the MRV on the front bucket valve body, It seemed fine, but I suspect that I am NOT getting the 2000PSI I indicated earlier I think, I'll find more like 1200-1500PSI when the cylinder is fully extended. I am assuming that the MRV is the one on the front loader valve. Strange thing about this MRV, I turned the Allen key adjustment on top while the cylinder was maxed, and did not see a pressure increase/decrease that I expected to see.

Thanks to all,

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J Schwiebert

04-19-2006 14:36:09




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 Re: JRV, re: JCB 1400B not so bad news???? in reply to Mike Hamilton, 04-19-2006 10:14:08  
I have never worked on a JCB but don't you think it is a little odd that over 1/2 of your hydraulic force is necessary to move an empty bucket? When was the last time you inspected the pins and bushings? When was it greased last? Were any of the line(S) to the main valve replaced with a smaller size line caused abnormal pressure drop? Just asking? J/



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J Schwiebert

04-19-2006 12:43:59




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 Re: JRV, re: JCB 1400B not so bad news???? in reply to Mike Hamilton, 04-19-2006 10:14:08  
O. K. you are telling us all this good stuff. The deffination of pressure is it is caused by resistance. Since you dead headed the cylinder there was no where for the oil to go so the pump and the oil being dumber than a box of rocks tried to go somewhere. It went over the relief valve. Now the next thing for you to do is determine the diameter of the bucket cylinders and the length of stroke. Then you need to extend the cylinders fully and while doing this have a youn assistant measure the amount of time it took to do this. Do this at least 3 times so we can get a good reading. Then there is a formula to calculate how much flow went to your cylinders. That will be one way to determine pump output (flow). If you are at 2000 you are probably close to what the relief is set at. We also need pump output at rated RPM. If that Rpm is different than wide open, operate the machine at that RPM when you time the cylinders. Questions? Your turn. J.

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