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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

BS is flying?

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jdemaris

11-08-2006 13:21:04




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To your first comment "Nobody here was referencing and HD4" - appears you are wrong - I made reference to it. In addition, I indicated I agree with the validity your personal feelings on the matter as compared to mine - I offered absolutey no disagreement with the facts you mentioned. I also made it clear that I am not experienced with H3s or HD3s, just the 4s. I just stripped an HD3 for it's undercarriage - and transmission parts - which are the same as for my HD4. I didn't notice (wasn't looking) that it had a hand-clutch. On the general subject- I know MANY people that find hand-clutches more convenient then foot. I am not one of those people. Many grew up with Cat and big AC dozers and/or Deere two-cylinder tractors. And your comment "A power 6 way would not be rare on a Deere" - uh - yeah, it WOULD be rare -regardless of who made it and where it came from. My boss had a high-lift 420 adapted to a 6-way setup. It exisited, it was uncommon, thus it is rare. In my area - just about evey H3, HD3, or HD4 I have seen had a six-way on it. May be a regional preference, but it is reality just the same. You seem to be upset about something - but if you feel a need to aim it my way - don't base it on mis-reading of things I did not say - or did not allude to. And again - my opinion - in no way a result or reaction to anything you said - I consider comparing the two crawlers apples and oranges. You can consider it any way you please.

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Lavoy

11-08-2006 16:14:58




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 Re: BS is flying? in reply to jdemaris, 11-08-2006 13:21:04  
No offense taken or intended.
I meant no one but you referenced an HD4, I said that wrong.
Re-read what I said about the power 6 way on a 420, what I meant was that it would not be rare, it would be non-existent because it was never offered on the 420 by Deere, only the 440 as far as two cylinders. 420 had a manual 6 way but that is it.
H3 is foot clutch, but to keep the hyd live, you need to use the reverser which is a big lever on the LH that looks a lot like a hand clutch. That is one of the reasons I say that an H/HD3 is not very handy. If you can't spare a hand to use the reverser, and use the foot clutch, you lose hyd. If you have your left hand on the steering lever, and your left foot on the brake and need to slow or stop but need hyd, you need to get a hand on the reverser lever. Perfectly functional, but a little tricky in tight quarters.
I may have taken issue with some of your statements, but not offense. This is an opinion board, and everybody has theirs, and the right to express it including you.
As far as your reference to BS flying, taking out what I said that was my opinion as to function, what about what I said was factually BS?
Lavoy

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jdemaris

11-09-2006 09:00:52




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 Re: BS is flying? in reply to Lavoy, 11-08-2006 16:14:58  
At this point - I don't know how to reply in an effective way- and I do not like nit-picking about words - that's for idiot college professors (I've taugh a few adjunct classes - so I guess that qualifies me to say that). Words mean something - including their everyday meaning and/or their OED denotation. They are dependent on context, and the sentences or paragraphs they are used in. And, all can have differing connotations depending on who is talking, and where, and why. I can't control all of that - and since these forum postings are "blind" with no vis-à-vis contact, most people not knowing one another, the words are all I have to go by. So - when you write something my direction, but "mean" something else - yeah, that's often a problem with written communications. I've tried my best to be clear and unequivocal - and I don't believe I wrote anything that is factually incorrect. You did. I also understand that you later qualified the statement. E.g. - you mentioned, twice now, that a six-way blade on a 420 "would be non-existent because it was never offered on the 420 by Deere." My response to that is . . . if someone modifies or constructs a 6-way on a 420 - it does exist. I've seen several, ergo - they are. That, along with most HD3s I've seen having OEM 6-ways, I felt I was qualified to mention it. At the outset - I offered my two-cents based on personal preference and opinion. I've worked on Deere crawlers since the early 60s. My AC experience is more limited. I just stripped an HD3 and was impressed with how heavy-built it is, as compared to some other crawlers. Most of the HD3 heavy-parts direct-fit my HD4 - and with the HD4 I have a lot of experience. Because of the similarities between the 3s and 4s, and because I've met several owners with both series - including a few that were previous small-Deere crawler owners - again - I felt it worth mentioning. From that - I offered my opinion along with any facts I was sure about. I made a point about MY machine being an HD4, not an HD3. And - my opinion about the "apples and oranges" comparison between the HD3 and 420 is based on the #1 the weight difference - 5100 lb. 420 versus a HD3 weighing 7600 lbs.; 420 with a 113 c.i. gas engine and HD3 with a 175 c.i. diesel., 420 being made around 1956-1958 whereas the HD3 being made 1960-1968, 420 with an approx. 6 GPM hydraulic pump at 1000 PSI and the HD3 having a 15 or 25 GPM hydraulic pump at 1625 PSI. And - to avoid any conflicts - I am only talking about the newer Allis Chalmers HD3 based on the D15 ag. tractor. There was an also an earlier
HD3 built ca. early 40s with a Detroit Diesel 2-71 with very limited production.

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